MetroFocus: May 24, 2023

RAFAEL: TONIGHT, FIRST LOOK OF YOUR FEDERAL HOUSING CRISIS AND HOW NEW YORK'S TRAILER PARKS CAN BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.

THEN, THE CHINESE-AMERICAN OTHER UNCOVERS FAMILY SECRETS IN A DARK PERIOD IN AMERICAN HISTORY, AS METROFOCUS STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪ THIS IS 'METROFOCUS,' WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, ESTATE OF ROLAND KARLEN.

FOUNDATION.

-- THE JPB FOUNDATION.

JACK: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS.'

I AM JACK FORD.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN AMERICA, THERE IS ONE TYPE OF HOUSING THAT IS NEVER IN THE CONVERSATION BUT IT SHOULD BE.

MOBILE HOMES.

THEY REPRESENT THE LARGEST SOURCE OF UNSUBSIDIZED AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THE COUNTRY.

FOR MANY EXPERIENCING HOUSING INSTABILITY, MOBILE HOME PARKS REPRESENT THE ONLY HOUSING OPTION THEY CAN ACTUALLY AFFORD.

BUT AS THE NEW PBS DOCUMENTARY TITLED 'A DECENT HOME SHOWS, MOBILE HOME RESIDENTS ARE ALWAYS VULNERABLE.

SOMETHING ACTIVISTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE LOOKING TO CHANGE.

LET'S TAKE A QUICK PREVIEW.

ACROSS AMERICA, MOBILE HOMES PROVIDE MUCH-NEEDED AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

EVERYBODY'S DREAM IS TO HAVE A PLACE THEY CAN CALL THEIR OWN.

BUT THERE IS A CATCH --

IT'S ABOUT WHO OWNS THE LAND.

MOST RESIDENTS OWN THEIR HOMES, BUT NOT THE LAND THEY LIVE ON.

AS RENTS SKYROCKET, AMENITIES ARE FIGHTING BACK.

'A DECENT HOME,' ON 'AMERICA REFRAMED.'

JACK: JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THIS FILM IS THE DIRECTOR, SARA TERRY.

ALSO WITH AS TO TALK ABOUT WHERE MOBILE HOMES FIT IN THE HOUSING LANDSCAPE IN NEW YORK STATE, AS WELL AS WHAT NEW YORK LAW SAYS ABOUT MOBILE HOMES, IS KIERSTEN KEEF, SENIOR ATTORNEY WITH THE EMPIRE JUSTICE CENTER'S ALBANY OFFICE.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

GUEST: THANK YOU.

JACK: IT'S A MARVELOUS FILM.

VERY COMPELLING AND VERY INFORMATIVE.

WHICH IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT WHEN PUTTING TOGETHER A DOCUMENTARY.

SARA, LET ME START WITH YOU AS A DIRECTOR HERE.

WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THE STORY THAT DREW YOU TO IT?

GUEST: I ACTUALLY BEGAN FILMING IN 2015.

THE CLINIC WAS READING AN ARTICLE IN THE GUARDIAN THAT WAS FOCUSING MAINLY ON MOBILE HOME UNIVERSITY, WHICH IS, IN THE FILM YOU WILL SEE IT AS A PLACE WHERE MID-LEVEL INVESTORS ARE TAUGHT TO BUY AND SELL PARTS AND MAKE THE MOST MONEY, WHICH WAS OUTRAGEOUS ENOUGH, BUT WITHIN THAT STORY THERE WAS A VERY SHARP PARAGRAPH -- SHORT PARAGRAPH THAT SAID THE CARLYLE GROUP, ONE OF THE LARGEST PRIVATE EQUITY FIRMS IN THE WORLD, IS STARTING TO BUY MOBILE HOME PARKS AND THE REST OF THE PRIVATE EQUITY WORLD IS WATCHING.

THAT WAS JUST, LIKE, I THINK THE WEALTH GAP IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT WE FACE IN THE WORLD, AND TO THINK THAT THE WEALTHIEST OF THE WEALTHY WERE BUYING UP HOMES THAT PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE WITH THE LEAST MEANS TO ACTUALLY OWN A HOME -- PRIVATE EQUITY WAS BUYING UP THE PARKS, THE LAND -- JACK: WE WILL GET TO THAT IN A SECOND AND WILL TALK ABOUT THAT.

GUEST: YEAH.

BUT IT WAS THAT.

IT WAS, LIKE, WHO ARE WE BECOMING AS AMERICANS WHEN THIS IS WHAT CAN HAPPEN? IT WAS TOO MUCH.

SIX WEEKS LATER I WAS FILMING AT MOBILE HOME UNIVERSITY.

JACK: A QUESTION I OFTEN ASK FILMMAKERS IS, WHERE DID THE TITLE COME FROM?

'A DECENT HOME' HAS SOME LEGAL SIGNIFICANCE.

EXPLAIN THAT TO US.

GUEST: FOR MANY YEARS, OF A WORKING TITLE WAS 'THAT IS HOW WE ROLL.'

I DECIDED THAT WAS TOO JOKEY AT THE END.

WE WERE CONSIDERING SOME HISTORIC LEGISLATION AROUND HOUSING IN AMERICA AND THERE WAS A 1949 ACT THAT IS STILL ON THE BOOKS, THE HOUSING ACT.

IT PLEDGES A DECENT HOME FOR EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN.

AND I WAS, LIKE, YEAH, 'A DECENT HOME,' THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

THERE IS YOUR TITLE.

RIGHT THERE.

JACK: KIERSTEN I KNOW THAT IN THE FILM, THE IDEA THAT THESE MOBILE HOME PARKS CAN BE AT LEAST PART OF THE SOLUTION TO OUR HOUSING CRISIS IS SIGNIFICANT HERE.

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, IN THE WORK THAT YOU DO, IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WOULD AGREE WITH?

GUEST: ABSOLUTELY.

AND I WILL JUST ACKNOWLEDGE, THE COMMUNITY RENEWAL NEW YORK STATE HOUSING AGENCY HAS RECOGNIZED THIS IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS AND DEVELOPED PRODUCTS AROUND FINANCING.

BUT ABSOLUTELY, THERE ARE ABOUT 1800 MOBILE HOME PARKS THROUGHOUT NEW YORK STATE.

AND I THINK THERE ARE JUST UNDER 85,000 OR SO HOUSEHOLDS IN MOBILE HOME PARKS.

IT REALLY IS A KEY PIECE TO THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING FABRIC IN NEW YORK STATE.

JACK: SARA, SEVEN EUROS TO PUT THIS TOGETHER, THE FILM SHOWS VARIOUS LOCATIONS -- SEVEN YEARS TO PUT THIS TOGETHER, THE FILM SHOWS VARIOUS LOCATIONS.

THERE IS A BIT OF A STIGMA MANY PEOPLE MIGHT ATTACH TO THE THOUGHT OF LIVING IN THE MOBILE HOME, IN A TRAILER PARK.

WHAT DID YOU FIND WITH REGARD TO THAT IDEA OF A STIGMA IN YOUR TRAVELS?

SARA: STIGMA WAS PART OF THE STEREOTYPING THAT I WANTED TO BREAK.

I KNEW PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN MOBILE HOME PARKS.

PART OF THE REASON WE HAVE THOSE STIGMAS IS MEDIA AND HOLLYWOOD REPRESENTATION OF THEM AS LAS T-END RESORTS, METH LABS.

I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THESE PARKS AND WHAT MADE THESE COMMUNITIES HOME.

I AM CONSTANTLY PORTRAYING HOME THROUGHOUT THE FILM IN EACH OF THE PARKS.

AND I FOUND ONE OF THE MAIN STORIES IN THE FILM IS ABOUT A LOW INCOME PARK IN COLORADO THAT IS MAINLY HISPANIC.

HISTORICALLY MOBILE HOME PARKS HAVE BEEN WHITE LANDSCAPES.

THAT IS CHANGING.

I ALSO WANTED TO THROW IN A LITTLE SURPRISE THAT WOULD SORT OF GO, YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT A MOBILE HOME PARK LOOKED LIKE AND YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHO LIVES THERE?

THERE IS A PARK IN THE FILM THAT IS LITERALLY RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO GOOGLE HEADQUARTERS, WERE GOOGLE EMPLOYEES ALONGSIDE FIXED INCOME SENIORS LIVE, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD HOUSING ANYWHERE IN SILICON VALLEY.

IT IS JUST A WAY OF TRYING TO SHAKE YOU UP, YOU KNOW, TO SHOW YOU THAT LANDSCAPE.

THERE IS A PARK IN IOWA WHERE A RETIRED GRANDMOTHER IS LEADING THE BATTLE AGAINST THE PRIVATE EQUITY FIRM THAT BOUGHT IT.

THEY ARE HOME, THEY ARE COMMUNITY.

PLACES WHERE PEOPLE CARE FOR EACH OTHER, CARE FOR THEIR HOMES AND IT IS WHERE THEY FEEL THEY HAVE GOT A SHOT AT WHAT WE HAVE CALLED THE AMERICAN DREAM.

JACK: LET'S GO BACK TO WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, WHERE YOU WERE SAYING THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN THESE HIGH-LEVEL FINANCIAL FIRMS ARE BUYING UP THESE MOBILE HOME PARKS.

IF SOMEONE IS NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE NOTION OF OWNERSHIP, THEY MIGHT SAY, WELL, MAY BE THAT IS A GOOD DEAL FOR THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THE MOBILE HOMES.

SOMEBODY GOING TO THROW SOME MONEY AT THEM.

BUT AS YOU TALK ABOUT IN THE FILM, THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT CATCH-22 HERE IN TERMS OF OWNERSHIP OF MOBILE HOMES WHICH ALLOWS THAT TO HAPPEN.

WHAT IS THAT, EXPLAIN THAT TO US.

KIRSTEN: THE TRICK WE HAVE ALLUDED TO IS THE FACT THAT THE PARK OWNER OWNS THE LAND.

THE OWNER OF THE HOME THAT IS ON THE LAND AS TO PAY RENT FOR THAT LAND.

THERE IS ALMOST NO PROTECTION ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES -- IT IS CHANGING A BIT IN RECENT YEARS, BUT THERE'S ALMOST NO PROTECTION FOR PARK RESIDENTS IN TERMS OF HOW OFTEN THE RENT CAN BE RAISED, BY HOW MUCH THE RENT CAN BE RAISED.

IT IS JUST LITTLE POCKET OF WHAT WAS A MOM-AND-POP BUSINESS FOR MANY YEARS WHERE PEOPLE WERE NOT INTERESTED IN MAKING HUGE PROFITS, AND THAT PRIVATE EQUITY WAY OF, THEY FIND AVOIDS TO FILL IN CAPITALISM, THEY SAW THERE WAS MONEY TO BE MADE HERE AND WITH NO PROTECTIONS AND WITH VERY FEW COSTS TO THE PARK OWNER -- BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT MAINTAINING THE PLUMBING, YOU ARE NOT MAINTAINING THE BUILDING LIKE YOU HAVE TO DO FOR AN APARTMENT DWELLER, THAT IS HOW THESE GUYS PITCH IT TO INVESTORS.

CASH FLOW FROM DAY ONE.

GOOD IN ANY MARKET.

SO MANY PEOPLE ARE POOR AND WE ARE IN THE HOUSING CRISIS.

IT IS SO COLD.

JACK: WHICH, BY THE WAY, IT IS, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND FROM A PERSONAL NATURE, BUT IF YOU ARE JUST LOOKING AT IT IN DOLLARS AND CENTS, THE WAY YOU DESCRIBED IT, THERE IS AN ATTRACTION TO THAT.

HOW ABOUT IN NEW YORK STATE, ARE THERE ANY PROTECTIONS THAT CAN AID PEOPLE IN THESE TYPES OF SCENARIOS?

KIRSTEN: THE NEW YORK HOUSING AGENCY DOES HAVE PRODUCTS TO HELP MOBILE HOME PARK RESIDENTS BECOME A CO-OP OR AN ASSOCIATION AND PURCHASE A PROPERTY, THE PROPERTY UNDERNEATH IT WHEN IT COMES UP FOR SALE.

WE DO HAVE A LAW ON THE BOOKS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO GIVE THOSE RESIDENTS A RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL.

SO WHEN THE PARK COMES FOR SALE, IF THE RESIDENTS CAN MEET THIS IN PRICE THIRD PARTY MIGHT BE PURCHASING IT, THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO PURCHASE IT.

THERE ARE ISSUES WITH THE BILL CURRENTLY.

ACTUALLY A BILL HAS BEEN INTRODUCED IN THE LEGISLATURE THIS SESSION THAT WOULD ENHANCE BILL AND IMPROVE IT AND MAKE IT MORE MEANINGFUL FOR THE PARK RESIDENTS TO BE ABLE TO PURCHASE.

JACK: SARA, I AM SURE IN YOUR TRAVELS AND DIGGING INTO THESE ISSUES, YOU HAVE SEEN THE PUSHBACK WHICH ESSENTIALLY SAYS, THERE IS SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T SOUND FAIR HERE TO THE OWNERS, BUT IN TIMES OF OUR CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY AND THE STANDARDS THAT WE GO BY, IF THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THIS LAND CAN MAKE A PROFIT BY SELLING IT, SHOULDN'T THEY BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT, TO BENEFIT FROM THEIR INVESTMENT WHENEVER THEY MADE IT, AND HOPEFULLY THE HOMEOWNERS WILL STILL BE ACCOMMODATED?

WHY SHOULD WE STEP IN AND INTERFERE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM WITH THAT COMMERCIAL TRANSACTION?

SARA: WHY SHOULD WE IN ANY WAY TRY TO TEMPER PREDATORY CAPITALISM?

WHAT SOCIETY DO YOU WANT TO LIVE IN?

WHERE MAKING A DOLLAR IS THE GOD THAT RULES EVERYTHING, AS GORDON GEKKO FAMOUSLY SAID, 'GREED IS GOOD.'

MILTON FRIEDMAN IN THE 1970'S WROTE IN THE 1970'S, SAID THE GOAL OF A CORPORATION IS TO MAKE MORE MONEY FOR ITS SHAREHOLDERS.

THAT FLIES IN THE FACE OF ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTIONS WE CAN ASK OURSELVES AS AMERICANS, AND THAT IS, 'IS A HOME SOMETHING AN INDIVIDUAL, A FAMILY NEEDS TO BE SAFE AND TO THRIVE, AND ARE AFFORDABLE HOMES SOMETHING A COMMUNITY NEEDS TO HAVE A THRIVING CITIZEN BASE, OR IS A HOME A COMMODITY, TO BE BOUGHT AND SOLD TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER?'

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE WINNING PART OF THAT ARGUMENT IS, 'IT IS JUST A COMMODITY THAT ANYBODY CAN BUY AND SELL.'

YOU LOOK FURTHER AND YOU WILL SEE PRIVATE EQUITY REEKING HAVOC IN THE ENTIRE HOUSING MARKET ACROSS THE COUNTRY, BUYING UP SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES AND TURNING THEM INTO RENTALS.

. THEY ARE DESTROYING ONE OF THE MOST BASIC THINGS THAT I HAVE ALWAYS CHERISHED ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN.

THAT IS WHAT THIS FILM IS ABOUT.

WHO ARE WE BECOMING IF THIS IS THE MODEL THAT WE SORT OF GO, LIFE IS GOOD.

MAKE AS MANY AS YOU CAN AND HURT ANYBODY YOU CAN.

IT DOESN'T MATTER AS LONG AS YOU MAKE A BUCK.

I CAN'T LIVE IN THAT AMERICA.

JACK: GOES BACK TO THE TITLE 'A STATUTORY GUARANTEE THAT EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN IS ENTITLED TO A DECENT HOME.'

WE COULD TALK FOREVER ABOUT THIS, BUT WE HAVE THE TYRANNY OF OVERTIME RESTRAINT.

IT IS A MARVELOUS FILM.

IT DOES WHAT A DOCUMENTARY SHOULD DO, IT INFORMS AND MAKES YOU THINK.

SARA, TO YOU, CONGRATULATIONS ON THAT.

AND KIRSTEN, THANK YOU FOR FILLING US IN ON WHAT THE NEW YORK STATE AREA IS DOING, WE WILL SEE WHERE THIS GOES.

THANK YOU AGAIN SO MUCH.

YOU ALL BE WELL.

GUEST: THANK YOU.

GUEST: THANK YOU.

♪ JACK: TONIGHT WE ARE PLEASED TO WELCOME AWARD-WINNING AUTHOR AND PROFESSOR AVA CHIN.

SHE IS A LIFELONG NEW YORKER AND FIFTH-GENERATION CHINESE-AMERICAN.

HER NO MEMOIR TRACES HER ANCESTORS' JOURNEY FROM CHINA . 'MOTT STREET: A CHINESE AMERICAN FAMILY'S STORY OF EXCLUSION AND HOMECOMING.'

IT WEAVES PERSONAL MEMOIR IT WITH AMERICAN HISTORY, FROM THE BUILDING OF THE TRANSCONTINENTAL RAILROAD, TO THE PASSAGE OF THE CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT, FOR THE EVOLUTION OF NEW YORK CITY'S CHINATOWN, TO HER SEARCH FOR HER FATHER.

ALONG THE WAY THERE ARE PAINFUL REVELATIONS ABOUT HER FAMILY, AND ABOUT AMERICA.

AND THERE IS MOTT STREET, OR GENERATIONS OF HER FAMILY HAVE LIVED FOR MANY YEARS.

AUTHOR AVA CHIN JOINS US.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

SO HAPPY TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

I WILL START OUT BY SAYING IT IS A WONDERFUL BOOK.

MY FIRST QUESTION TO YOU, AS TO ALL AUTHORS, AND AS I MENTIONED, IT IS A PERSONAL NAMOR, IT IS YOUR FAMILY'S HISTORY, IT IS AMERICAN HISTORY, WHY DID YOU DECIDE THIS WAS THE BOOK HE WANTED TO WRITE?

AVA: SO, AS YOU MENTIONED -- BY THE WAY, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON YOUR SHOW -- AS YOU MENTIONED, BASICALLY I AM A FIFTH-GENERATION CHINESE-AMERICAN, BIG OR RAISED BY A SINGLE MOTHER AND ESTRANGED FROM MY MOTHER.

FOR YEARS I YEARNED TO UNDERSTAND WHO MY FAMILY WAS.

AT THE SAME TIME, I AM ALSO THE PROUD DESCENDANT OF THE CHINESE RAILROAD WORKER WHO BUILT THE RAILROAD THAT HELPED UNITE THE COUNTRY AFTER THE CIVIL WAR.

AND THESE STORIES WERE JUST THE TIP OF SOMETHING MUCH, MUCH LARGER THAT MOST AMERICANS DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.

I REALLY WANTED TO TELL THAT STORY.

JACK: WHEN YOU SAY 'TELL THAT STORY,' I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT EARLIER IN THE BOOK HE SAID, YOU HAD TO GRAPPLE WITH JUST WHOSE STORY WAS THIS YOU WERE GOING TO TELL.

IS IT THESE ANCESTORS?

IS IT YOUR STORY, IS IT A STORY FOR YOUR CHILD AND THEIR FUTURE?

WHY WAS THAT A DIFFICULT HURDLE, AND WHAT DID YOU ULTIMATELY DECIDE ABOUT WHOSE STORY WOULD BE TOLD? AVA: IN THE BEGINNING I THOUGHT THIS WAS ENTIRELY THEIR STORY.

I WAS FASCINATED BY THE STORIES OF RAILROAD WORKERS IN MY FAMILY, BY THE EARLIEST ANCESTORS WHO CAME TO NEW YORK AND FOUGHT FOR OUR CIVIL RIGHTS DURING A PERIOD WHERE CHINESE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO NATURALIZE AND TO VOTE.

THEN I SOON REALIZED THAT THIS WAS ALSO MY STORY AND THE STORY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS BECAUSE THE STORY WAS SO IMPACTFUL.

THE STORY GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO A PERIOD IN TIME IN WHICH OUR YOUNG COUNTRY WAS ASKING ITSELF, WHO IS AMERICAN AND WHO IS NOT?

WHO IS ONE OF US AND WHO IS NOT?

AND WHAT HAPPENED BACK THEN SET US AS A COUNTRY, ON THE PATH TOWARDS SEEING ALL ASIANS AS BEING FOREVER FORWARD AND SUSPICIOUS -- FOREVER FOREIGN AND SUSPICIOUS.

AND BECAUSE MY FAMILY HAS BEEN HERE SO MANY GENERATIONS AND WE HELPED WORK ON THE RAILROAD WHICH THE ENTIRE COUNTRY BENEFITED FROM, I REALIZED THIS STORY WAS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO TELL, AND IT WAS A STORY THAT I COULD TELL HIM GIVE TO MY DAUGHTER AS WELL.

JACK: I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION, THE CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT.

MANY PEOPLE MAY BE TOTALLY UNFAMILIAR WITH THAT AND WOULD PROBABLY BE SHOCKED TO HEAR ABOUT IT.

GIVE US A QUICK SENSE, WHAT WAS IT, AND HOW DOES THAT ENTER INTO YOUR NARRATIVE HERE?

AVA: THE CHINESE EXCLUSION LAWS OR THE COUNTRY'S FIRST MAJOR IMMIGRATION RESTRICTIONS.

THAT EFFECTIVELY SHUT THE BORDER FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME AND HALTED LEGAL CHINESE IMMIGRATION INTO THE COUNTRY AND ALSO BLOCKED THE PATHWAY TOWARDS OUR CITIZENSHIP FOR OVER 60 YEARS.

THEY STARTED IN 1882 AND LASTED UNTIL WORLD WAR II WHEN THE U.S.

AND CHINA WERE ALLIES.

THEY ALSO SET THE TONE FOR FUTURE IMMIGRATION RESTRICTIONS GOING FORWARD, SO BY 1924 ALMOST ALL ASIANS WERE BANNED FROM COMING INTO THE COUNTRY.

THERE WERE RESTRICTIONS AGAINST SOUTHERN AND EASTERN EUROPEANS, AS WELL.

JACK: EXCLUSION PLAYS A ROLE IN YOUR STORYTELLING.

EXTEND THAT NOTION OF THE BIT AND EXPLAIN TO US THE ROLE THAT IT PLAYS.

GUEST: SO I WAS REALLY INTERESTED IN SEEING THE WAYS THAT EXCLUSION IMPACTED PEOPLE ON THE GROUND.

I WANTED TO TELL THE STORY THROUGH THE LIVES OF MY ANCESTORS AND MY FAMILY MEMBERS AND I THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE AN INTERESTING WAY AND AWAY THAT PEOPLE COULD REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW DISCRIMINATORY LEGISLATION FROM THE PAST IMPACTED PEOPLE ON THE GROUND AND IT STILL IMPACTS US TODAY.

AND THIS NEW ITERATION UNDER COVID AND ANTI-ASIAN VIOLENCE -- I FELT THAT -- I STARTED WORKING ON THE BOOK BEFORE THE PANDEMIC HAPPENED.

AS THE POLITICAL SITUATION GREW WORSE AND WORSE THAN THE COMMUNITY BEGAN TO SCAPEGOAT IT, I REALIZED THE STORY WAS BECOMING MORE AND MORE RELEVANT.

JACK: THE BOOK I MENTIONED 'MOTT , STREET: A CHINESE AMERICAN FAMILY'S STORY OF EXCLUSION AND HOMECOMING.'

THERE IS A SPECIFIC BUILDING ON MOTT STREET THAT IS AN ESSENTIAL CHARACTER IN YOUR STORY HERE.

AND AGAIN, A FASCINATING CHARACTER.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

GUEST: SURE.

MY FAMILY, WHEN THEY WOUND UP IN NEW YORK CITY, ENDED UP LIVING IN THE SAME TENEMENT APARTMENT BUILDING IN NEW YORK'S CHINATOWN, ON MOTT STREET.

THAT BUILDING PROVIDED A REFUGE FOR ALL MY FAMILY MEMBERS, BOTH SIDES OF MY FAMILY HAVE LIVED HERE.

. I REALIZED THAT GENERATIONS AGO, BOTH SIDES OF MY FAMILY WERE DOWNSTAIRS AND UPSTAIRS NEIGHBORS FROM EACH OTHER.

FAMILIES THAT I THOUGHT BEFORE THIS WERE ONLY CONNECTED THROUGH MY OWN BIRTH, IN FACT, THEY HAD BEEN UPSTAIRS NEIGHBORS FROM EACH OTHER, HAD PLAYED BASKETBALL TOGETHER, THEY USED TO SOME OUT ON THE JERSEY SHORE TOGETHER -- SUMMER OUT ON THE JERSEY SHORE TOGETHER.

THE FAMILIES WERE INTERRELATED AND INTERCONNECTED IN WAYS I DIDN'T REALIZE BEFORE THE BOOK.

JACK: WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU WALK INTO THE BUILDING TODAY?

GUEST: I FEEL LIKE THE BUILDING'S DNA IS IN MY BONES.

THERE IS A WAY IN WHICH WHEN I AM WALKING THROUGH THE CORRIDOR SCORE VISITING FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS, I FEEL LIKE THE BUILDING PROVIDED KIND OF A WOMB FOR MY FAMILY, DOING A GREAT PERIOD AND TIME IN WHICH THEY WERE REALLY STRUGGLING.

THE BUILDING HOLDS A SPECIAL PLACE IN MY HEART.

THE OTHER THING I LIKE TO TELL PEOPLE IS THAT, I DON'T NEED TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY IN ORDER TO FEEL CONNECTED TO MY ROOTS AND HERITAGE, I CAN JUST GO DOWN TO CHINATOWN.

JACK: THAT IS SOMETHING MOST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE, THAT ABILITY TO SAY, HERE IS ONE LOCATION AND MY HISTORY EMANATES FROM THIS AND I CAN LEARN SO MUCH FROM IT.

I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION THAT AS PART OF YOUR SEARCHING HERE, DEEPER INTO YOUR FAMILY, BUT INTO YOUR IMMEDIATE FAMILY, YOU WERE INVOLVED IN SEARCHING FOR YOUR ESTRANGED FATHER.

TELL US THAT STORY AND HOW THAT BECOMES A PART OF THE STORY IN THIS BOOK.

AVA: SO, I GREW UP RAISED BY SINGLE MOTHER, DIDN'T KNOW MY FATHER AND I DIDN'T NEED HIM UNTIL I WAS IN MY 20'S.

ALL I HAD HEARD ABOUT HIM AND HIS FAMILY WAS NOT THEY WERE BIGWIGS IN CHINATOWN, AND I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THAT MEANT.

I WOULD SAY THAT TRYING TO UNDERSTAND MY FAMILY WAS REALLY WHAT LED ME TO THIS MUCH LARGER STORY, THIS LARGER LEGACY OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE CHINESE IN AMERICA.

I SHOULD ALSO TELL YOU THAT THERE WERE TIMES WHERE MY FATHER WAS RELUCTANT TO TALK TO ME ABOUT A LOT OF THESE THINGS, THERE WERE A LOT OF FAMILY SECRETS THAT I UNCOVER AND I WRITE ABOUT, BUT WHEN I TRIED TO TELL HIM, WHAT I TRIED TO TELL HIM AND OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS WAS THAT, THIS STORY IS NOT JUST ABOUT YOU AND I.

IT'S NOT ABOUT ONE SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.

IT IS THROUGH THIS STORY THAT WE LEARN SOMETHING MUCH LARGER AND MORE IMPORTANT ABOUT AMERICAN HISTORY.

JACK: THIS BOOK CHRONICLES YOUR OWN JOURNEY, YOUR SEARCH FOR YOUR FAMILY.

AND CHRONICLES THEIR, YOUR FAMILY'S JOURNEY, WHAT THEY HAD EXPERIENCED AND ACCOMPLISHED.

I AM CURIOUS AS TO, YOUR JOURNEY HERE, YOUR JOURNEY OF DISCOVERY, DID YOU FIND ONE THINK THAT PERHAPS YOU WERE MOST SURPRISED BY OR MAY BE DISTURBED BY OR EVEN SHOCKED BY?

AVA: THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WERE REALLY SURPRISING TO ME.

THE FIRST WAS I ENDED UP TRYING TO FIND MORE INFORMATION ABOUT OUR -- A CHINESE RAILROAD WORKER.

HE ENDED UP LIVING IN THE COUNTRY FOR ABOUT THREE DECADES.

MANY DECADES AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THE RAILROAD, HE MOVED TO BOISE, IDAHO.

I TRACK HIS WHEREABOUTS DOWN, AND ONE OF THE THINGS I FOUND WAS SO SURPRISING, WAS THAT HE WAS LIVING IN IDAHO DURING A PERIOD IN TIME IN WHICH THE STATE POPULATION WAS NEARLY 30% CHINESE.

THAT WAS SURPRISING.

ANOTHER SURPRISING THING I FOUND OUT WAS THAT -- SO WE HAD AN AUNT, IT WHITE WOMAN WHO MARRIED INTO THE FAMILY AROUND THE TURN OF THE LAST CENTURY.

THIS WAS A PERIOD IN TIME IN WHICH MOST AMERICAN FAMILIES WOULD HAVE DISOWNED THEIR DAUGHTERS FOR MARRYING OUTSIDE OF THE RACE.

ONE OF THE MOST SURPRISING THINGS ABOUT THIS WAS THAT A COUPLE OF YEARS AFTER MARRYING INTO OUR FAMILY, THE U.S.

GOVERNMENT REVOKED AND ELVIS' CITIZENSHIP BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED AT THE TIME THAT A WOMAN'S CITIZENSHIP SHOULD REFLECT THAT OF HER HUSBAND'S.

SO A COUPLE OF YEARS AFTER GETTING MARRIED, ARE AUNT WHO WAS BORN IN NEW JERSEY, DAUGHTER OF THE CIVIL WAR VETERAN, BECAME IN THE EYES OF THE LAW, A CHINESE.

JACK: FASCINATING.

AGAIN, THERE ARE SO MANY PARTS OF THIS THAT ARE INDEED FASCINATING.

WHAT DID YOUR FAMILY THINK ABOUT YOU EMBARKING ON?

AVA: THIS JOURNEY?

AVA: -- ABOUT YOU EMBARKING ON THIS JOURNEY?

AVA: I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK.

THERE WERE SOME FAMILY MEMBERS WHO WERE ECSTATIC AND VERY ENTHUSIASTIC AND SUPPORTIVE.

THEY GAVE ME INTERVIEWS.

THEY PULLED OUT AMAZING FAMILY RECORDS AND SHARED STORIES.

THAT WAS INCREDIBLE.

BUT THERE WERE OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS WHO WERE MORE RETICENT TO TALK, AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT TOO.

. IT IS A MIXED BAG.

I THINK IT IS HARD FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE THE WRITER IN THE FAMILY, RIGHT, WHO MIGHT AIR THEIR DIRTY LAUNDRY.

BUT I DID TRY TO TELL PEOPLE TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THIS IS A MUCH LARGER STORY AT WORK.

IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT YOU OR I, IT WAS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO A LARGE SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION DURING THAT TIME PERIOD.

JACK: WHAT DO YOU HOPE READERS WILL TAKE AWAY FROM THIS BOOK?

AVA: THE GREAT AIM OF THIS BOOK IS THAT FOLKS CAN UNDERSTAND THAT CHINESE AND ASIAN AMERICAN STORIES CAN ENTER THEIR PROPER SPACE INTO THE LARGER AMERICAN STORY.

JACK: WELL, ONCE AGAIN, IT IS CALLED 'MOTT STREET: A CHINESE AMERICAN FAMILY'S STORY OF EXCLUSION AND HOMECOMING.'

AVA CHIN, IT IS A MARVELOUS WORK, AND I THINK PEOPLE WILL THOROUGHLY ENJOY IT AND WALK AWAY FROM IT HAVING SOME GOOD THOUGHTS ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS A COUNTRY, AND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A CITIZEN HERE.

WONDERFUL WORK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

TAKE CARE.

AVA: THANK YOU.

TAKE CARE.

♪ JACK: THANKS FOR TUNING IN TO 'METROFOCUS.'

YOU CAN TAKE OUR PROGRAM WITH YOU ANYWHERE YOU GO WITH 'METROFOCUS: THE PODCAST.'

LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE SO YOU NEVER MISS AN EPISODE.

YOU CAN SIMPLY ASK YOUR SMART SPEAKER TO PLAY 'METROFOCUS: THE PODCAST.'

ALSO AVAILABLE AT METROFOCUS.ORG , THEN ON THE NPR1 APP.

'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G.

PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, ESTATE OF ROLAND KARLEN.

THE JPB FOUNDATION.

♪