A CHINESE AMERICAN TALE

JACK: TONIGHT WE ARE PLEASED TO WELCOME AWARD-WINNING AUTHOR AND PROFESSOR AVA CHIN.

SHE IS A LIFELONG NEW YORKER AND FIFTH-GENERATION CHINESE-AMERICAN.

HER NO MEMOIR TRACES HER ANCESTORS' JOURNEY FROM CHINA . 'MOTT STREET: A CHINESE AMERICAN FAMILY'S STORY OF EXCLUSION AND HOMECOMING.'

IT WEAVES PERSONAL MEMOIR IT WITH AMERICAN HISTORY, FROM THE BUILDING OF THE TRANSCONTINENTAL RAILROAD, TO THE PASSAGE OF THE CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT, FOR THE EVOLUTION OF NEW YORK CITY'S CHINATOWN, TO HER SEARCH FOR HER FATHER.

ALONG THE WAY THERE ARE PAINFUL REVELATIONS ABOUT HER FAMILY, AND ABOUT AMERICA.

AND THERE IS MOTT STREET, OR GENERATIONS OF HER FAMILY HAVE LIVED FOR MANY YEARS.

AUTHOR AVA CHIN JOINS US.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

SO HAPPY TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

I WILL START OUT BY SAYING IT IS A WONDERFUL BOOK.

MY FIRST QUESTION TO YOU, AS TO ALL AUTHORS, AND AS I MENTIONED, IT IS A PERSONAL NAMOR, IT IS YOUR FAMILY'S HISTORY, IT IS AMERICAN HISTORY, WHY DID YOU DECIDE THIS WAS THE BOOK HE WANTED TO WRITE?

AVA: SO, AS YOU MENTIONED -- BY THE WAY, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON YOUR SHOW -- AS YOU MENTIONED, BASICALLY I AM A FIFTH-GENERATION CHINESE-AMERICAN, BIG OR RAISED BY A SINGLE MOTHER AND ESTRANGED FROM MY MOTHER.

FOR YEARS I YEARNED TO UNDERSTAND WHO MY FAMILY WAS.

AT THE SAME TIME, I AM ALSO THE PROUD DESCENDANT OF THE CHINESE RAILROAD WORKER WHO BUILT THE RAILROAD THAT HELPED UNITE THE COUNTRY AFTER THE CIVIL WAR.

AND THESE STORIES WERE JUST THE TIP OF SOMETHING MUCH, MUCH LARGER THAT MOST AMERICANS DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.

I REALLY WANTED TO TELL THAT STORY.

JACK: WHEN YOU SAY 'TELL THAT STORY,' I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT EARLIER IN THE BOOK HE SAID, YOU HAD TO GRAPPLE WITH JUST WHOSE STORY WAS THIS YOU WERE GOING TO TELL.

IS IT THESE ANCESTORS?

IS IT YOUR STORY, IS IT A STORY FOR YOUR CHILD AND THEIR FUTURE?

WHY WAS THAT A DIFFICULT HURDLE, AND WHAT DID YOU ULTIMATELY DECIDE ABOUT WHOSE STORY WOULD BE TOLD? AVA: IN THE BEGINNING I THOUGHT THIS WAS ENTIRELY THEIR STORY.

I WAS FASCINATED BY THE STORIES OF RAILROAD WORKERS IN MY FAMILY, BY THE EARLIEST ANCESTORS WHO CAME TO NEW YORK AND FOUGHT FOR OUR CIVIL RIGHTS DURING A PERIOD WHERE CHINESE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO NATURALIZE AND TO VOTE.

THEN I SOON REALIZED THAT THIS WAS ALSO MY STORY AND THE STORY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS BECAUSE THE STORY WAS SO IMPACTFUL.

THE STORY GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO A PERIOD IN TIME IN WHICH OUR YOUNG COUNTRY WAS ASKING ITSELF, WHO IS AMERICAN AND WHO IS NOT?

WHO IS ONE OF US AND WHO IS NOT?

AND WHAT HAPPENED BACK THEN SET US AS A COUNTRY, ON THE PATH TOWARDS SEEING ALL ASIANS AS BEING FOREVER FORWARD AND SUSPICIOUS -- FOREVER FOREIGN AND SUSPICIOUS.

AND BECAUSE MY FAMILY HAS BEEN HERE SO MANY GENERATIONS AND WE HELPED WORK ON THE RAILROAD WHICH THE ENTIRE COUNTRY BENEFITED FROM, I REALIZED THIS STORY WAS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO TELL, AND IT WAS A STORY THAT I COULD TELL HIM GIVE TO MY DAUGHTER AS WELL.

JACK: I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION, THE CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT.

MANY PEOPLE MAY BE TOTALLY UNFAMILIAR WITH THAT AND WOULD PROBABLY BE SHOCKED TO HEAR ABOUT IT.

GIVE US A QUICK SENSE, WHAT WAS IT, AND HOW DOES THAT ENTER INTO YOUR NARRATIVE HERE?

AVA: THE CHINESE EXCLUSION LAWS OR THE COUNTRY'S FIRST MAJOR IMMIGRATION RESTRICTIONS.

THAT EFFECTIVELY SHUT THE BORDER FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME AND HALTED LEGAL CHINESE IMMIGRATION INTO THE COUNTRY AND ALSO BLOCKED THE PATHWAY TOWARDS OUR CITIZENSHIP FOR OVER 60 YEARS.

THEY STARTED IN 1882 AND LASTED UNTIL WORLD WAR II WHEN THE U.S.

AND CHINA WERE ALLIES.

THEY ALSO SET THE TONE FOR FUTURE IMMIGRATION RESTRICTIONS GOING FORWARD, SO BY 1924 ALMOST ALL ASIANS WERE BANNED FROM COMING INTO THE COUNTRY.

THERE WERE RESTRICTIONS AGAINST SOUTHERN AND EASTERN EUROPEANS, AS WELL.

JACK: EXCLUSION PLAYS A ROLE IN YOUR STORYTELLING.

EXTEND THAT NOTION OF THE BIT AND EXPLAIN TO US THE ROLE THAT IT PLAYS.

GUEST: SO I WAS REALLY INTERESTED IN SEEING THE WAYS THAT EXCLUSION IMPACTED PEOPLE ON THE GROUND.

I WANTED TO TELL THE STORY THROUGH THE LIVES OF MY ANCESTORS AND MY FAMILY MEMBERS AND I THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE AN INTERESTING WAY AND AWAY THAT PEOPLE COULD REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW DISCRIMINATORY LEGISLATION FROM THE PAST IMPACTED PEOPLE ON THE GROUND AND IT STILL IMPACTS US TODAY.

AND THIS NEW ITERATION UNDER COVID AND ANTI-ASIAN VIOLENCE -- I FELT THAT -- I STARTED WORKING ON THE BOOK BEFORE THE PANDEMIC HAPPENED.

AS THE POLITICAL SITUATION GREW WORSE AND WORSE THAN THE COMMUNITY BEGAN TO SCAPEGOAT IT, I REALIZED THE STORY WAS BECOMING MORE AND MORE RELEVANT.

JACK: THE BOOK I MENTIONED 'MOTT , STREET: A CHINESE AMERICAN FAMILY'S STORY OF EXCLUSION AND HOMECOMING.'

THERE IS A SPECIFIC BUILDING ON MOTT STREET THAT IS AN ESSENTIAL CHARACTER IN YOUR STORY HERE.

AND AGAIN, A FASCINATING CHARACTER.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

GUEST: SURE.

MY FAMILY, WHEN THEY WOUND UP IN NEW YORK CITY, ENDED UP LIVING IN THE SAME TENEMENT APARTMENT BUILDING IN NEW YORK'S CHINATOWN, ON MOTT STREET.

THAT BUILDING PROVIDED A REFUGE FOR ALL MY FAMILY MEMBERS, BOTH SIDES OF MY FAMILY HAVE LIVED HERE.

. I REALIZED THAT GENERATIONS AGO, BOTH SIDES OF MY FAMILY WERE DOWNSTAIRS AND UPSTAIRS NEIGHBORS FROM EACH OTHER.

FAMILIES THAT I THOUGHT BEFORE THIS WERE ONLY CONNECTED THROUGH MY OWN BIRTH, IN FACT, THEY HAD BEEN UPSTAIRS NEIGHBORS FROM EACH OTHER, HAD PLAYED BASKETBALL TOGETHER, THEY USED TO SOME OUT ON THE JERSEY SHORE TOGETHER -- SUMMER OUT ON THE JERSEY SHORE TOGETHER.

THE FAMILIES WERE INTERRELATED AND INTERCONNECTED IN WAYS I DIDN'T REALIZE BEFORE THE BOOK.

JACK: WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU WALK INTO THE BUILDING TODAY?

GUEST: I FEEL LIKE THE BUILDING'S DNA IS IN MY BONES.

THERE IS A WAY IN WHICH WHEN I AM WALKING THROUGH THE CORRIDOR SCORE VISITING FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS, I FEEL LIKE THE BUILDING PROVIDED KIND OF A WOMB FOR MY FAMILY, DOING A GREAT PERIOD AND TIME IN WHICH THEY WERE REALLY STRUGGLING.

THE BUILDING HOLDS A SPECIAL PLACE IN MY HEART.

THE OTHER THING I LIKE TO TELL PEOPLE IS THAT, I DON'T NEED TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY IN ORDER TO FEEL CONNECTED TO MY ROOTS AND HERITAGE, I CAN JUST GO DOWN TO CHINATOWN.

JACK: THAT IS SOMETHING MOST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE, THAT ABILITY TO SAY, HERE IS ONE LOCATION AND MY HISTORY EMANATES FROM THIS AND I CAN LEARN SO MUCH FROM IT.

I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION THAT AS PART OF YOUR SEARCHING HERE, DEEPER INTO YOUR FAMILY, BUT INTO YOUR IMMEDIATE FAMILY, YOU WERE INVOLVED IN SEARCHING FOR YOUR ESTRANGED FATHER.

TELL US THAT STORY AND HOW THAT BECOMES A PART OF THE STORY IN THIS BOOK.

AVA: SO, I GREW UP RAISED BY SINGLE MOTHER, DIDN'T KNOW MY FATHER AND I DIDN'T NEED HIM UNTIL I WAS IN MY 20'S.

ALL I HAD HEARD ABOUT HIM AND HIS FAMILY WAS NOT THEY WERE BIGWIGS IN CHINATOWN, AND I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THAT MEANT.

I WOULD SAY THAT TRYING TO UNDERSTAND MY FAMILY WAS REALLY WHAT LED ME TO THIS MUCH LARGER STORY, THIS LARGER LEGACY OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE CHINESE IN AMERICA.

I SHOULD ALSO TELL YOU THAT THERE WERE TIMES WHERE MY FATHER WAS RELUCTANT TO TALK TO ME ABOUT A LOT OF THESE THINGS, THERE WERE A LOT OF FAMILY SECRETS THAT I UNCOVER AND I WRITE ABOUT, BUT WHEN I TRIED TO TELL HIM, WHAT I TRIED TO TELL HIM AND OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS WAS THAT, THIS STORY IS NOT JUST ABOUT YOU AND I.

IT'S NOT ABOUT ONE SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.

IT IS THROUGH THIS STORY THAT WE LEARN SOMETHING MUCH LARGER AND MORE IMPORTANT ABOUT AMERICAN HISTORY.

JACK: THIS BOOK CHRONICLES YOUR OWN JOURNEY, YOUR SEARCH FOR YOUR FAMILY.

AND CHRONICLES THEIR, YOUR FAMILY'S JOURNEY, WHAT THEY HAD EXPERIENCED AND ACCOMPLISHED.

I AM CURIOUS AS TO, YOUR JOURNEY HERE, YOUR JOURNEY OF DISCOVERY, DID YOU FIND ONE THINK THAT PERHAPS YOU WERE MOST SURPRISED BY OR MAY BE DISTURBED BY OR EVEN SHOCKED BY?

AVA: THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WERE REALLY SURPRISING TO ME.

THE FIRST WAS I ENDED UP TRYING TO FIND MORE INFORMATION ABOUT OUR -- A CHINESE RAILROAD WORKER.

HE ENDED UP LIVING IN THE COUNTRY FOR ABOUT THREE DECADES.

MANY DECADES AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THE RAILROAD, HE MOVED TO BOISE, IDAHO.

I TRACK HIS WHEREABOUTS DOWN, AND ONE OF THE THINGS I FOUND WAS SO SURPRISING, WAS THAT HE WAS LIVING IN IDAHO DURING A PERIOD IN TIME IN WHICH THE STATE POPULATION WAS NEARLY 30% CHINESE.

THAT WAS SURPRISING.

ANOTHER SURPRISING THING I FOUND OUT WAS THAT -- SO WE HAD AN AUNT, IT WHITE WOMAN WHO MARRIED INTO THE FAMILY AROUND THE TURN OF THE LAST CENTURY.

THIS WAS A PERIOD IN TIME IN WHICH MOST AMERICAN FAMILIES WOULD HAVE DISOWNED THEIR DAUGHTERS FOR MARRYING OUTSIDE OF THE RACE.

ONE OF THE MOST SURPRISING THINGS ABOUT THIS WAS THAT A COUPLE OF YEARS AFTER MARRYING INTO OUR FAMILY, THE U.S.

GOVERNMENT REVOKED AND ELVIS' CITIZENSHIP BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED AT THE TIME THAT A WOMAN'S CITIZENSHIP SHOULD REFLECT THAT OF HER HUSBAND'S.

SO A COUPLE OF YEARS AFTER GETTING MARRIED, ARE AUNT WHO WAS BORN IN NEW JERSEY, DAUGHTER OF THE CIVIL WAR VETERAN, BECAME IN THE EYES OF THE LAW, A CHINESE.

JACK: FASCINATING.

AGAIN, THERE ARE SO MANY PARTS OF THIS THAT ARE INDEED FASCINATING.

WHAT DID YOUR FAMILY THINK ABOUT YOU EMBARKING ON?

AVA: THIS JOURNEY?

AVA: -- ABOUT YOU EMBARKING ON THIS JOURNEY?

AVA: I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK.

THERE WERE SOME FAMILY MEMBERS WHO WERE ECSTATIC AND VERY ENTHUSIASTIC AND SUPPORTIVE.

THEY GAVE ME INTERVIEWS.

THEY PULLED OUT AMAZING FAMILY RECORDS AND SHARED STORIES.

THAT WAS INCREDIBLE.

BUT THERE WERE OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS WHO WERE MORE RETICENT TO TALK, AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT TOO.

. IT IS A MIXED BAG.

I THINK IT IS HARD FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE THE WRITER IN THE FAMILY, RIGHT, WHO MIGHT AIR THEIR DIRTY LAUNDRY.

BUT I DID TRY TO TELL PEOPLE TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THIS IS A MUCH LARGER STORY AT WORK.

IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT YOU OR I, IT WAS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO A LARGE SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION DURING THAT TIME PERIOD.

JACK: WHAT DO YOU HOPE READERS WILL TAKE AWAY FROM THIS BOOK?

AVA: THE GREAT AIM OF THIS BOOK IS THAT FOLKS CAN UNDERSTAND THAT CHINESE AND ASIAN AMERICAN STORIES CAN ENTER THEIR PROPER SPACE INTO THE LARGER AMERICAN STORY.

JACK: WELL, ONCE AGAIN, IT IS CALLED 'MOTT STREET: A CHINESE AMERICAN FAMILY'S STORY OF EXCLUSION AND HOMECOMING.'

AVA CHIN, IT IS A MARVELOUS WORK, AND I THINK PEOPLE WILL THOROUGHLY ENJOY IT AND WALK AWAY FROM IT HAVING SOME GOOD THOUGHTS ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS A COUNTRY, AND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A CITIZEN HERE.

WONDERFUL WORK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

TAKE CARE.

AVA: THANK YOU.

TAKE CARE.

♪