MetroFocus: January 25, 2023

> TONIGHT, CRACKING DOWN ON THE PUPPY MILL PIPELINE.

ALBANY HAS NOW MADE IT ILLEGAL FOR PET STORES TO SELL DOGS, CATS, AND RABBITS.

SO, WHERE WILL YOUR NEXT FURRY FRIEND COME FROM?

> AND, PRESERVING THE LEGACY OF THE BOSS.

HOW THE ROCK ICON'S BIGGEST FANS HELP CREATE THE BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN ARCHIVES, AS 'METROFOCUS' STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪

> THIS IS 'METROFOCUS,' WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

> 'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY --

> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS,' I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

PET LOVERS ACROSS NEW YORK ARE CELEBRATING A NEW BILL RECENTLY SIGNED INTO LAW BY GOVERNOR HOCHUL THAT PROTECTS ANIMAL RIGHTS.

THE LAW, WHICH TAKES EFFECT IN 2024, WILL BAN THE SALE OF DOGS, CATS, AND RABBITS AT PET STORES IN NEW YORK AND PLACE RESTRICTIONS ON HOW MANY ANIMALS BREEDERS ARE ALLOWED TO SELL.

NOW, SEVERAL OTHER STATES ALREADY HAVE PET SALE BANS IN PLACE, MAKING NEW YORK JUST THE LATEST TO JOIN THE FIGHT TO END WHAT IS CALLED THE PUPPY MILL TO PET STORE PIPELINE.

AND THE ANIMAL ABUSE THAT OFTEN COMES WITH IT.

AND JOINING ME NOW WITH DETAILS ON THIS NEW LAW, AS WELL AS HOW IT WILL EFFECT ANIMAL ENTHUSIASTS AND THOSE IN THE PET SALE BUSINESS, IS THE DEPUTY MAJORITY LEADER OF THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE, MICHAEL GIANARIS.

HE IS ALSO THE ORIGINAL SPONSOR OF THIS BILL.

SENATOR, WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS.'

THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON, JENNA.

ABSOLUTELY.

SO, FIRST OFF, TELL US, BECAUSE I SORT OF TOUCHED ON THE FACT THAT THIS ISN'T, OF COURSE, LIMITING PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO HAVE ACCESS TO PETS, BUT WHAT IS EXACTLY THE PURPOSE OF THIS LEGISLATION?

WELL, THE PURPOSE IS TO SAVE ANIMALS AND SPARE THEM THE PAIN AND THE SUFFERING THAT THEY GO THROUGH AT THE PLACES WHERE THEY ORIGINATE.

WE CALL THIS THE PUPPY MILL TO PET STORE PIPELINE, BECAUSE WHEN YOU WALK PAST THE PET STORE ON THE MAIN ROAD IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU SEE THE PUPPIES DANCING IN THE WINDOW, AND YOU DON'T KNOW HOW THEY GOT THERE.

BUT WE DO KNOW FROM DOING THE RESEARCH AND SEEING THE DATA, IS THAT PREDOMINANTLY, THEY COME FROM PUPPY MILLS, OFTEN OUT OF STATE, WHERE THESE ANIMALS ARE ESSENTIALLY TREATED LIKE COMMODITIES.

THE FEMALES THAT ARE ABLE TO GIVE BIRTH ARE JUST UTILIZED OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THE BABIES ARE KEPT IN CAGES, MISTREATED, BO WE'VE SEEN INSTANCES WHERE FEMALE DOGS THAT WERE NO LONGER CAPABLE OF GIVING BIRTH WERE JUST SHOT, EXECUTED ON SITE, BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THESE AWFUL PUPPY MILLS DON'T LOOK AT THESE BEINGS AS LIVING THINGS.

THEY JUST LOOK AT THEM AS A WAY TO MAKE MONEY AND MASS PRODUCE THEM AND SEND THEM OUT TO THE PET STORES, WHICH, IN EFFECT, LAUNDER THE AWFUL BEHAVIOR OF THESE PUPPY MILLS, BECAUSE THE CONSUMER DOESN'T KNOW ALL THIS BACKGROUND MATERIAL.

WE DO KNOW IT.

AND WHAT WE HAVE DONE NOW IS PROHIBITED THESE SALES TO SPARE THESE ANIMALS GOING FORWARD.

PEOPLE WILL STILL BE ABLE TO GET THEIR ANIMALS, THERE'S SO MANY GREAT ANIMALS IN NEED OF ADOPTION AND RESCUE.

I HAVE SOME MYSELF.

AND I KNOW A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE DO.

AND IF PEOPLE WANT A PARTICULAR BREED OR HAVE SPECIFIC DESIRES, THE LAW WILL STILL ALLOW THEM TO DEAL DIRECTLY WITH A BREEDER THAT THE CONSUMER WOULD HAVE TO GO VISIT, LAY EYES ON THE FACILITY AND SEE FOR THEMSELVES THAT THE ANIMALS ARE NOT BEING MISTREATED.

SO, WE STILL KEPT OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GET A PET IN DIFFERENT WAYS, JUST THE PET STORE ITSELF WILL NOT BE AMONG THEM.

SO, WHEN -- IN THE INTRO, I ALSO MENTIONED THAT NEW YORK IS JOINING SEVERAL OTHER STATES THAT HAVE SIMILAR BANS IN PLACE.

BUT I'M WONDERING, FIRST OF ALL, IF IT'S ONLY SOME STATES AND NOT ALL STATES, THEN YOU CAN STILL GET A PET FROM A PUPPY MILL THAT WOULD BE, A, AND B, IF SOMETHING THIS TERRIBLE IS HAPPENING, WHY IS IT NOT BANNED AT A NATIONAL LEVEL?

WELL, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS FALLEN DOWN ON THE JOB, AS THEY DO IN SO MANY THINGS.

IN THEORY, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS REGULATING THESE PUPPY MILLS.

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE IS SUPPOSED TO GO THERE, LICENSE THEM, FINE THEM FOR VIOLATIONS, BUT THEY JUST DON'T DO IT.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES, THEY HAVEN'T MADE IT A PRIORITY, WHATEVER THE REASON IS, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS JUST NOT DOING IT, BUZZ SO MANY OF THEM ARE OUT OF STATE, SOME HAVE ASKED, WHY DIDN'T WE JUST ATTACK THE PUPPY MILLS DIRECTLY INSTEAD OF RETAIL STORES?

BUT BECAUSE THEY'RE OUT OF STATE, THEY'RE OUT OF OUR JURISDICTION.

AND SO, WHAT WE CAN DO IS CUT OFF THE DEMAND FOR THESE ANIMALS AT THE RETAIL SHOP LEVEL, WHICH ARE PREDOMINANTLY WHERE THEY ARE PURCHASED, WHO MAKES THE PURCHASES FROM THE PUPPY MILL.

SO, WE TACKLE THE PROBLEM THAT WAY.

OTHER STATES HAVE DONE THIS.

THEY'VE DONE IT THEIR OWN DIFFERENT WAYS, AND I THINK IT'S PRETTY EFFECTIVE WAY TO BOTH ENCOURAGE ADOPTIONS, YOU KNOW, IN THE ANIMAL RIGHTS COMMUNITY, THERE'S A SAYING, ADOPT DON'T SHOP.

WHICH IS MEANT TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO RESCUE ANIMALS THAT ARE WONDERFUL ANIMALS IN THEIR OWN RIGHT, AND DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM SHOPPING THAT ENCOURAGING PUPPY MILLS TO KEEP PRODUCING.

I DO NOTICE THAT YOU KEEP SAYING DISCOURAGE.

THIS DOESN'T NECESSARILY ELIMINATE.

AND I'M ALSO WONDERING, FOR SOME PEOPLE, PERHAPS THEY'VE GOT AN IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, AT ONE POINT IT WAS VERY POPULAR AFTER THAT MOVIE 101 DALMATIANS CAME OUT AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WANTED TO GET A DALMATIAN.

AND IF YOU REALLY WANT TO BUY AN ANIMAL, YOU CAN, AND IT MIGHT BE CHEAPER TO GET ONE FROM A PUPPY MILL THAN IT IS TO ADOPT.

CAN YOU JUST ADDRESS THE FACT, HOW THIS DISCOURAGING WORKS, EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM.

FUNDAMENTALLY, THE ASSUMPTION WE'RE ALL MAKING, PEOPLE, IF THEY KNEW THE CONDITIONS THESE ANIMALS WERE BEING BRED IN, WOULD CHOOSE NOT TO DO THAT, AND SO, BY REQUIRING THEM TO DEAL DIRECTLY WITH THE BREEDER, IF THEY STILL WANT TO USE A BREEDER, YOU WOULD SEE FOR YOURSELF WHETHER THEY'RE BEING TREATED HUMANELY, OR IF THEY'RE JUST A LARGE SCALE MASS PRODUCTION SCHEME FOR PROFIT.

THE OTHER THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS, THIS IS A MEASURE THAT PROTECTS CONSUMERS THEMSELVES.

THESE ANIMALS, WHEN THEY'RE BRED THE WAY THEY ARE, OFTEN HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS, AND THERE'S MANY, MANY OCCASIONS WHERE PEOPLE HAVE PURCHASED ANIMALS FROM A RETAIL SHOP, ONLY TO GO HOME AND REALIZE THEY HAVE TO START PAYING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN VETERINARY BILLS BECAUSE THE ANIMAL HAS A DEFECT, GENETIC DEFECT OR SOME KIND OF HEALTH PROBLEM THAT RESULTS IN TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF CARE.

JUST TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THESE SHOPS HAVE BEEN NOT REALLY FOCUSED ON THE WELL BEING OF THE ANIMAL THE WAY THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT THESE ANIMALS.

WE HAD ONE ON LONG ISLAND THAT HAD AN ENFORCEMENT ACTION BROUGHT AGAINST THEM, SHUT DOWN FOR AWHILE.

AND PART OF THE COMPLAINTS WERE, THEY WERE SELLING SICK ANIMALS.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT BOUGHT IT, COMPLAINED, AND THE PET SHOT OWNER'S RESPONSE WAS, WELL, IF YOU BUY AN ANIMAL THAT'S SICK, WE'LL TAKE IT BACK AND SWAP OUT FOR ANOTHER ONE, NO PROBLEM.

BUT THESE ARE NOT AUTOMOBILES, THEY'RE NOT CANS OF SOUP YOU BUY IN THE SUPERMARKET SHELF THAT CAN BE EXCHANGED.

THESE ARE LIVING THINGS.

AND TO TREAT THEM THIS WAY REALLY UNDERLINES THE PROBLEM THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE HERE.

AND I THINK BY CUTTING OFF THE MIDDLEMAN, OR THE LAUNDERER OF THE BAD BEHAVIOR IN THIS CASE, AT THE RETAIL STORE LEVEL, I THINK WILL GO A LONG WAY TOWARDS IMPROVING THINGS.

WELL, I MYSELF, I MENTIONED DALMATIANS AS A PARTICULAR BRED, AND WE HAVE, OF COURSE, BEEN TALKING ABOUT PUPPY MILLS, BUT THIS EXTENDS TO CATS AND RABBITS, AS WELL.

DO YOU FIND THE SAME PROBLEMS WITH CAT BREEDERS AND RABBIT BREEDERS?

OF COURSE.

I MEAN, THE PUPPY MILLS ARE THE MOST NOTORIOUS, BUT YES, THIS OCCURS ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.

THAT'S WHY ALL THREE OF THOSE ANIMALS WERE INCLUDED.

THEY ARE THE MOST COMMON HOUSEHOLD PELT PELTS, AS WELL, T MAKES SENSE TO INCLUDE ALL OF THEM.

ONE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY, JUST FROM THE BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, TOO, BECAUSE WE'VE HEARD THAT, AS WELL, IS THE PET SUPPLY AND STORE INDUSTRY, IT'S 98% OF ITS REVENUE FROM THINGS THAT ARE NOT SELLING OF ANIMALS.

ONLY 2% OF THE INDUSTRY REVENUE COMES FROM THE ACTUAL SALE OF ANIMALS.

IT IS MOSTLY PET FOOD, SUPPLIES, LITTER BOXES, WHAT HAVE YOU, ALL THE THINGS THAT GO INTO HAVING A PET.

COSTUMES, YEAH.

RIGHT, EXACTLY.

HALLOWEEN, FOR SURE.

BUT THE FACT IS, IF THESE PET STORE OWNERS JUST WANT TO RETHINK THEIR BUSINESS MODEL A LITTLE BIT, THEY WILL SURVIVE JUST FINE AND WON'T HAVE A REAL DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON THEIR BUSINESS.

BUT WE WILL BE DOING IMMEASURABLE GOOD TO THOUSANDS OF ANIMALS THAT ARE CURRENTLY BEING MISTREATED.

OKAY, BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO ASK IF THIS COULD BE SEEN AS AN ANTI-BUSINESS BILL, BUT YOU JUST EXPLAINED THAT.

I'M WONDERING, THOUGH, I MEAN, DOGS, CATS, RABBITS AREN'T THE ONLY CREATURES THAT YOU MIGHT SEE IN A PET STORE.

YOU CAN FIND REPTILES, YOU CAN FIND DIFFERENT BREEDS OF BIRDS.

SHOULD SOMETHING LIKE THIS EXTEND TO THEM, AS WELL, OR IS THERE NOT THE SAME KIND OF PROBLEMATIC BEHAVIOR WHEN IT COMES TO PET STORES SELLING BIRDS AND REPTILES?

RIGHT, I'M NOT AWARE OF AN IGUANA MILL, THAT HAS THE SAME MISTREATMENT THAT THESE OTHER MILLS DO, BUT IF THERE IS EVIDENCE OF THAT, THEN I'M CERTAINLY OPEN TO HAVING THAT CONVERSATION AND MOVING FORWARD.

WE'VE DONE A LOT OF GOOD IN NEW YORK SINCE TAKING THE SENATE MAJORITY TO PROTECT ANIMALS.

WE WERE THE FIRST STATE IN THE COUNTRY TO BAN CAT DECLAWS.

AND THIS ANTI-PUPPY MILL BILL IS PROBABLY THE FLAGSHIP LAW THAT WE'VE PASSED IN THAT TIME TO IMPROVE THE LIVE WITHES OF OUR LOVED ONES, REALLY, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE, THEY BECOME MEMBERS OF OUR FAMILIES.

IF THERE'S MORE WORK TO BE DONE, WE ARE READY TO KEEP DOING IT.

SPEAKING OF MORE WORK TO BE DONE, THIS SEEMS, AT LEAST, BASED ON WHAT YOU DESCRIBED, LIKE THE KIND OF LEGISLATION THAT SHOULD BE A SLAM DUNK IN ALBANY, BUT ANYONE WHO HAS PAID ANY ATTENTION TO ALBANY KNOWS THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A THING, SO, DID YOU RECEIVE ANY PUSH-BACK AND CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE REASONING WAS?

YEAH, IT'S INTERESTING.

YOU ASKED SOME VERY GOOD, INFORMATIVE QUESTIONS IN THIS INTERVIEW AND I THINK A LOT OF LEGISLATORS HAVE THE SAME QUESTIONS.

SO, IT DID TAKE SOME TIME TO EDUCATE PEOPLE.

THERE ARE ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE BUSINESSES, THERE ARE ARGUMENTS ABOUT PEOPLE'S CHOICE AND -- IN THE WAY THEY OBTAIN AN ANIMAL, BUT AT ROOT, WHAT YOU FIND OUT ONCE YOU DIG INTO IT IS, THERE'S NOT A PET STORE IN EXISTENCE THAT SELLS ANIMALS THAT IS NOT AFFECTED BY THE PUPPY MILL INDUSTRY AND SOMEHOW ENCOURAGES THE -- OR PURCHASES FROM THEM OR ENCOURAGES THAT PROCEDURE TO KEEP GOING.

IT'S FUNNY, IT PASSED IN BOTH HOUSES BY WIDE MARGINS, ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS THESE DAYS, DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ALIKE GET TOGETHER, BUT I GUESS PUPPIES AND KITTENS IS THE ONE ISSUE THAT STILL BRINGS EVERYONE TOGETHER.

BUT ONCE YOU -- IT TOOK A COUPLE YEARS TO GET IT DONE, BUT ONCE YOU EDUCATE PEOPLE, THEY ALL WERE SUPPORTIVE.

I USE TO TELL FOLKS CONCERNED ABOUT THE BUSINESSES, GIVE ME THE NAME OF A STORE IN YOUR DISTRICT, AND THEY WOULD, AND WE WOULD LOOK UP THEIR RECORDS AND THERE WAS NOT ONE THAT WAS NOT GETTING THEIR ANIMALS FROM PUPPY MILLS THAT HAD HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, ACTIVITIES OCCURRING AS PART OF THEIR PRODUCTION OF ANIMALS.

AND SO, IT DIDN'T TAKE TOO LONG ONCE YOU GET TO THAT POINT TO GET EVERYONE BEHIND IT.

GLAD THE GOVERNOR ALSO AGREED AND SIGNED IT, SO, WE'RE NOW ONE OF THE LEADING STATES IN PROTECTING OUR DOGS AND CATS AND RABBITS.

WELL, SENATOR, WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF TIME HERE, WE'VE GOT ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, BUT WITH ALL THIS POSITIVE ENERGY AND COOPERATION THAT I'M HEARING COMING OUT OF ALBANY, AT LEAST ON THIS ISSUE, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO SHARE WITH US THAT IS AT LEAST SEEMINGLY MOVING TOWARDS THE FINISH LINE?

WELL, WE JUST STARTED OUR NEW SESSION, SO, THERE'S A LOT TO COME IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, BUT THE CREATION OF A TRUE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS SOMETHING THAT IS A PRIORITY FOR ME.

I KNOW THE GOVERNOR MENTIONED IT, AS WELL, WE'LL SEE WHAT DETAILS SHE HAS IN HER PROPOSAL.

FIXING THE MTA AND GETTING IT ON SOUND FINANCIAL FOOTING, NOT JUST YEAR TO YEAR WITH THE BAND AID APPROACH.

BUT A REAL SOLID INVESTMENT IN MASS TRANSIT ARE TWO OF THE THINGS I'LL BE LOOKING AT IN THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS.

AND OF COURSE EVERYTHING IS INTERCONNECTED.

SO, HOW CLOSELY IS ALBANY WATCHING WHAT DOES OR DOES NOT HAPPEN IN WASHINGTON WHEN IT COMES TO THE DEBT CEILING?

A GREAT DEAL.

WE'RE WATCHING WASHINGTON FOR SO MANY THINGS.

AND WE JUST HAD A FIGHT OVER OUR HIGHEST COURT HERE IN NEW YORK, OUR COURT OF APPEALS, A CHIEF JUDGE NOMINEE THAT WE JUST REJECTED, BECAUSE THE STATE AND THE STATE COURT SYSTEM ARE BECOMING ALL THE MORE IMPORTANT, AS OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, PARTICULARLY THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, IS GOING BACKWARDS AND PUSHING A LOT OF THESE DECISIONS THAT WE THOUGHT WERE PROTECTED FEDERALLY BACK ONTO THE STATES.

AND SO, THERE'S NO QUESTION, WE'RE LINKED TO WHATEVER HAPPENS AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT WE'RE READY TO DO OUR WORK HERE IN NEW YORK.

ALL RIGHT, WELL, SENATOR, I WANT TO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON 'METROFOCUS,' DEFINITELY FOR FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR ANIMALS, AND PLEASE JOIN US AGAIN WITH ANY UPDATES ON WHAT'S TO COME FROM ALBANY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ABSOLUTELY.

♪ BABY WE WERE BORN TO RUN

> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS,' I'M JACK FORD.

IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MUSIC ICON BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, YOU KNOW HE'S A JERSEY GUY.

MOSTLY, THE JERSEY SHORE, TO BE PRECISE.

SO, MIGHT NOT BE A SURPRISE TO LEARN THAT THE BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN ARCHIVES HAVE FOUND A HOME THERE AT MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY.

BUT YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED AT THE EXTENT OF THE ARCHIVES, HOW THEY ARRIVED AT THEIR HOME AT MONMOUTH AND HOW THE PROJECT HAS EXPANDED TO CONSTITUTE THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN MUSIC.

THE ARCHIVES AND CENTER PROVIDE A FASCINATING COLLECTION OF A ARTIFACTS AND PROGRAMS FOR FANS, SCHOLARS, HISTORIANS, AND THE SIMPLY CURIOUS.

JOINING US NOW TO TALK ABOUT THE CREATION OF THE ARCHIVES AND THE CENTER AND WHAT THEY HAVE TO OFFER IS BOB SANTELLI, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND GRAMMY-AWARD WINNER, AND A FRIEND OF MINE FROM MANY YEARS BACK.

BOB, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, JACK.

SO, LET'S START AT THE BEGINNING, WHICH IS ALWAYS A GOOD PLACE TO START IN THESE CONVERSATIONS.

HOW AND WHY DID THE IDEA OF GATHERING UP THE BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN ARCHIVES AND PLACING THEM AT A PARTICULAR LOCATION COME ABOUT?

THE BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN ARCHIVES HAS ITS ORIGINS IN ASBURY PARK.

THERE WAS AN ORGANIZATION THAT BEGAN TO ASSEMBLE PHOTOGRAPHS, NEWSPAPER ARTICLES, MAGAZINES, ET CETERA, AND PUT THEM IN ASBURY PARK LIBRARY.

THE ASBURY PARK LIBRARY COULDN'T HANDLE IT IN TERMS OF ITS SIZE, MYSELF AND MY COLLEAGUE EILEEN CHAPMAN, WE GOT INVOLVED AND REALIZED THIS WAS TOO VALUABLE TO HAVE IT SIMPLY DISAPPEAR OR NOT HAVE IT AT THE DISPOSAL OF PEOPLE.

SO, WE MOVED IT TO MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY.

AND MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY WAS VERY RECEPTIVE TO THE IDEA, THEY GAVE US A PLACE TO STORE THE MATERIALS AND FROM THAT POINT ON, WHICH WAS ABOUT EIGHT OR NINE YEARS AGO, THE COLLECTION HAS GROWN SIGNIFICANTLY, TO THE POINT NOW, WE'RE UP TO 37,000 PIECES.

LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY AS THE REPOSITORY.

WHY DID THAT WORK AS THE LOCATION?

JACK, YOU KNOW, MONMOUTH WORKS SIMPLY BECAUSE OF TWO OR THREE REASONS.

NUMBER ONE IS THAT BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN'S EARLIEST FANBASE, WHEN MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY WAS MONMOUTH COLLEGE, THAT'S WHERE THE FANS CAME FROM.

A FEW BLOCKS AWAY FROM MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY, BRUCE WROTE 'BORN TO RUN.'

WHEN I WAS A STUDENT AT MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY, THEN MONMOUTH COLLEGE, I MUST HAVE SEEN BRUCE PLAY, OH, A COUPLE OF DOZEN TIMES AT THE UNIVERSITY, OR AT THE COLLEGE AT THE TIME.

SO, HIS ROOTS ARE VERY STRONG THERE, PLUS, WE WANTED TO BE ESTABLISHED WITH AN ACADEMIC INSTITUTION.

MANMOUTH UNIVERSITY ON THE JERSEY SHORE IS IT.

IT JUST MADE TOTAL SENSE.

YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU WENT THERE, YOU TAUGHT THERE, I'VE TAUGHT THERE IN THE PAST, I WAS ON THE BOARD FOR A FEW YEARS, MANY YEARS BACK, AND IT'S BECOME -- IT'S GROWN, IT'S BECOME A NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED DOCTORAL INSTITUTION WITH SO MANY FACILITFACILITIES, AND THI PART OF THAT.

I MENTIONED WE HAVE THE BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN ARCHIVES WHICH MAKES SENSE, BUT ALSO THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN MUSIC.

HOW DID THAT COMPONENT COME ABOUT?

WHEN WE REALLY BEGAN TO BE AMBITIOUS ABOUT WHAT THE BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN ARCHIVE COULD BE, I WENT TO BRUCE AND SAID, BRUCE, YOU KNOW, IN ADDITION TO THIS COLLECTION THAT WE HAVE HERE, I HAVE BIGGER, BOLDER, MORE AMBITIOUS IDEAS FOR THIS COLLECTION.

AND I EXPLAINED TO BRUCE, WHAT WE WANTED TO DO, AND HE WAS VERY SILENT, I WAS TALKING TO HIM, AND I COULDN'T TELL WHETHER HE WAS RECEPTIVE TO THE IDEA OR NOT.

AT THE END, HE SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S A GREAT THING THAT YOU'RE DOING, HOWEVER, PUTTING ALL THE ATTENTION ON ME IS NOT RIGHT.

I'M A CHAPTER IN THE ONGOING STORY OF AMERICAN MUSIC.

IF WE CAN ENLARGE THIS TO MAKE IT MORE ENCOMPASSING, MAKE THE STORY BIGGER, WHICH I AM APART, THAT WOULD WORK.

AND QUITE HONESTLY, JACK, THAT'S WHAT I HAD IN MIND ALL ALONG.

I ALWAYS ENVISIONED BRUCE BASICALLY BEING THE CATALYST OR THE POSTER BOY FOR THE INSTITUTION ON AMERICAN MUSIC, BECAUSE HE REPRESENTS SO MANY ASPECTS OF IT.

AND SO WE STARTED TO BROADEN THE IDEA AND INCLUDED NOW EXHIBITIONS, NOT JUST COLLECTIONS, BUT EXHIBITIONS, PUBLIC PROGRAMS, EDUCATIONAL WORKSHOPS, ET CETERA, SO, WE'RE ALMOST A FULL-BLOWN INSTITUTION NOW, THE KIND THAT WE ENVISIONED ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN YEARS AGO, WHEN I FIRST WENT TO HIM WITH THE IDEA.

I WOULD SUSPECT THAT WHEN PEOPLE HEAR THAT STORY, THEY WOULD BE SURPRISED, ESPECIALLY AT THE ELEMENT OF SOMEBODY AS BIG A STAR AS BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, SAYING, NO, NO, I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE ALL ABOUT ME.

I AM APART OF SOMETHING BIGGER.

YOU KNOW, YOU'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE GRAMMY MUSEUM, THE ROCK 'N' ROLL HALL OF FAME, YOU ARE A MUSIC HISTORIAN AND EDUCATOR.

WERE YOU SURPRISED TO HEAR HIM SAY, NO, NOT JUST ME, I WANT THIS TO BE MUCH MORE EXPANSIVE?

YOU KNOW, I REALLY WASN'T, JACK, AND THE REASON WHY IS, I'VE KNOWN BRUCE A LONG TIME, AS MY -- DURING MY TIME WHEN I WAS THE ASBURY PRESS MUSIC CRITIC AND GOT TO KNOW HIM MANY YEARS AGO.

HE -- HE ALWAYS CAME ACROSS AS AN AMATEUR MUSIC HISTORIAN, IF YOU LOVE OF AMERICAN MUSIC VER STRONG.

AND HE REALIZES THAT HE IS APART OF IT.

HE IS A BIG PART, HOWEVER, ESPECIALLY IN THE 20th CENTURY, OF COURSE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, THE TI TITANS, THE BIG ICONS OF AMERICAN MUSIC, DUKE ELLINGTON, WOODY GUTHRIE, BOB DYLAN, BRUCE'S NAME IS ON THERE.

AND SO, HAVING SOMEONE THAT POWERFUL COME TO US AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT ME, THE STORY'S BIGGER, THE STORY THAT'S BIGGER NEEDS TO BE TOLD, I'D LOVE TO BE PART OF IT, BUT THE STORY'S BIGGER.

YEAH.

AGAIN, IF YOU KNOW, AND I KNOW BRUCE JUST A LITTLE BIT, BUT IF YOU KNOW HIM, IT MIGHT BE SURPRISING TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, BUT IF YOU KNOW HIM, IT'S NOT SURPRISING.

RIGHT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS NOW OF GATHERING UP, AS YOU SAID, MORE THAN 30,000 ITEMS AND ARTIFACTS.

HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DOING THAT, AND HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT POSITIONING IT, PHYSICALLY, AT MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY?

MANY OF THE PIECES THAT WE HAVE, NEARLY ALL OF THEM, JACK, ARE BASICALLY DONATIONS.

FANS WHO HAVE BEEN COLLECTORS OF BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN MEMORABILIA OR TAPES OR PHOTOGRAPHS, WHATEVER, THEY GET UP THERE IN AGE, THEY REALIZE THEIR COLLECTION HAS SERVED THEM PERSONALLY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, BUT NOW THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO PUT IT PERMANENTLY.

AND THEY HEAR ABOUT US, THEY CONTACT US, WHAT WE DO, ESSENTIALLY, WE REVIEW WHAT THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE -- WE DON'T WANT TO BE A REPOSITORY FOR SOMEONE'S ATTIC, YOU KNOW, YEAH, I HAVE ALL THIS STUFF, TAKE IT, IT'S MORE FORMAL THAN THAT.

IN THE EARLY DAYS, MAYBE THAT WOULD WORK, BUT NOT ANYMORE.

AND WE'RE SIMPLY BURSTING AT THE SALES RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE SO MUCH, PLUS WE HAVE ALL OF BRUCE'S ARCHIVES, AS WELL.

AND SO, WHEN YOU ADD ALL OF THAT UP, IT IS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MATERIAL.

IN ADDITION TO THE ACTUAL THREE DIMENSIONAL OBJECTS, AS WE SAY, WE HAVE A VERY LARGE DIGITAL COLLECTION OF INTERVIEWS AND ORAL HISTORIES AND TAPES AND PERFORMANCES, SO -- IT'S A FULL-FLEDGED INSTITUTION, WHERE IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT COLLECTIONS OF PHOTOGRAPHS AND MAGAZINES, IT'S FAR MORE THAN THAT.

AND IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE ONE OF THESE DAYS FOR US TO GROW AND EXPAND AND ACTUALLY FIND A NEW HOME SOMEWHERE ON THE MONMOUTH CAMPUS, BECAUSE I HAVE TO TELL YOU, IF YOU WERE TO WALK INTO WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, IT'S A -- IT'S A HOME THAT WE HAVE BASICALLY TRANSFORMED INTO AN ARCHIVAL SPACE.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE COLLECTIONS IN THE BATHTUB.

I GUESS THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD NEWS.

EXACTLY.

EXACTLY.

THE GOOD NEWS IS, YOU HAVE SO MUCH, THE BAD NEWS IS, YOU HAVE SO MUCH THAT YOU HAVE TO UTILIZE THE BATHTUB.

EXACTLY.

LET ME ASK ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT THE ARCHIVES AND THE CENTER DO, BECAUSE I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, A COLLECTION, AN ARCHIVAL COLLECTION, BUT I ALSO TALKED ABOUT EXHIBITS AND PROGRAMS.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THAT.

WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE THE IDEA, THE AMBITIOUS IDEA CAME FROM THAT I MENTIONED BEFORE, DIDN'T WANT TO BE JUST A COLLECTION, A REPOSITORY.

AN ARCHIVES, A TRADITIONAL ARCHIVES PRESERVES AND CELEBRATES A PARTICULAR ARTIST OR HISTORICAL ASPECT, WHATEVER.

WE WANTED TO PUT THAT TO GOOD USE.

AND THE IDEA THAT I PRESENTED TO BRUCE WAS, WE WANT TO BE ACTIVE.

WE DON'T WANT TO BE A PASSIVE INSTITUTION.

AND THAT WOULD MEAN HAVING CONCERTS, THAT WOULD MEAN HAVING SEMINARS, SYMPOSIUM, OUTREACH WITH EXHIBITIONS.

FOR INSTANCE, RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE AN EXHIBITION ON BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN IN LOS ANGELES, WHICH CELEBRATES BRUCE AS A LIVE PERFORMER.

NEXT WEEK, IN BOSTON, WE'LL OPEN UP A BOB DYLAN EXHIBIT THAT THE ARCH ARCHIVES CURATED.

IT'S A TRAVELING EXHIBITION ON BOB DYLAN.

WE HELD A MAJOR SYMPOSIUM CELEBRATING THE 50th ANNIVERSARY OF 'GREETINGS FROM ASBURY PARK.'

600 PEOPLE ATTENDED, SOLDOUT CONCERT FEATURING ONE OF THE ORIGINAL E-STREET BAND PIANISTS, DAVID SANCHEZ.

SO, WE'RE VERY, VERY ACTIVE, NOT JUST IN A COLLECTING PHASE, BUT ALSO IN THE EDUCATIONAL PHASE, AS WELL.

I'M CURIOUS, AND YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS BRIEFLY, BUT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT DREW YOU HERE.

AND YOU TOUCHED ON IT A LITTLE BIT, BUT AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, YOU ARE A GRAMMY AWARD-WINNING MUSIC HISTORIAN, PRODUCER AND EDUCATOR, YOU WERE THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE GRAMMY MUSEUM.

YOU WERE INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN THE CREATION OF THE ROCK 'N' ROLL HALL OF FAME.

YOU'VE DONE A LOT AROUND THE COUNTRY.

WHAT MADE YOU COME HOME TO THIS?

MY WIFE KEEPS ASKING ME THAT, AS WELL, JACK, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PRETTY CLEAR ANSWER TO ME.

NUMBER ONE, I'M A JERSEY GUY.

AND MY WHOLE LIFE HAS BEEN SOMEHOW, SOME WAY, CONNECTED TO NEW JERSEY MUSIC, NEW JERSEY CULTURE.

I'M A JERSEY SHORE GUY, AS YOU ARE, TOO, GROWING UP ON THE JERSEY SHORE, VERY, VERY SPECIAL PLACE FOR ME, FOR YOU, AND FOR BRUCE, RIGHT?

I WENT TO MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY, THEN MONMOUTH COLLEGE, IT'S WHERE I GOT MY START AS A JOURNALIST, I WON'T FORGET THAT.

I TAUGHT THERE.

AND THEN QUITE HONESTLY, I AM, YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO SAY, AS A MUSIC JOURNALIST, I RODE HIS COAT TAILS, JACK, IN THE '70s, WHEN I WAS JUST GETTING STARTED.

HE MADE HIMSELF AVAILABLE, I GOT THE INTERVIEWS, I WROTE A BOOK WITH MAX WINEBERG, THE DRUMMER, I WORKED ON BRUCE'S FIRST BOOK CALLED 'SONGS.'

HE'S GIVEN ME A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES.

MY PAYBACK, MY SENSE OF SHOWING MY APPRECIATION FOR ALL OF THAT, FOR THE STATE, FOR THE REGION, FOR THE UNIVERSITY, FOR BRUCE, IS TO CREATE -- USE MY SKILL SET TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT'S LONG-LASTING, BEN FEFICIAL TO H, THE STATE, THE UNIVERSITY.

IT MIGHT BE MY SWAN SONG, BUT IT'S AN IMPORTANT ONE.

I GOT ABOUT 45 SECONDS HERE, SO, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ONE QUICK QUESTION, BUT AN IMPORTANT QUESTION.

THAT IS, WHAT IS YOUR VISION FOR WHAT THIS MIGHT BECOME?

IT'S GOING TO BECOME A NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED INSTITUTION.

WHEN I FOUND OUT ON FRIDAY -- ON SATURDAY THAT PEOPLE CAME FROM DUBLIN, FROM LONDON, FROM CALIFORNIA, TO ATTEND THIS, I REALIZED THE POTENTIAL WAS PRETTY, PRETTY INCREDIBLE.

AND OF COURSE, WITH BRUCE GOING ON TOUR, STARTING NEXT MONTH, THE ATTENTION TO HIM AND THE E-STREET BAND WILL OLS ELEVATE AND ACCENTUATE WHAT WE'RE DOING AT THE -- AT THE ARCHIVES.

AND THE HOPE IS THAT WE FIND A PLACE ON AMERICA'S CULTURAL LANDSCAPE, AND MAKE A CONTRIBUTION.

I WANT IT TO BE USEFUL, I WANT IT TO BE IMPORTANT FOR HIM, AND TO FUTURE BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN FANS AND SCHOLARS.

WELL, IT'S THERE ALREADY AND IT'S ON THE WAY TO SOMETHING BIGGER AND BETTER.

THE BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN ARCHIVES AND CENTER FOR AMERICAN MUSIC, LOCATED AT MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY.

BOB, ALWAYS GOOD TO TALK WITH YOU AND CONGRATULATIONS ON WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON IT.

YOU BE WELL NOW.

THANK YOU, JACK.

YOU, TOO.

ALL RIGHT.

> 'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY --