MetroFocus: December 6, 2022

> TONIGHT, WE LOOK BACK ON HOW BLACK ARTISTS FOUGHT TO BE HEARD, EVEN WHEN THEIR COUNTRY MADE IT INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR THEM.

FIRST, THE GREEN BOOK USED TO NAVIGATE LIFE ON THE ROAD DURING SEGREGATION.

AND THEN HOW ARTISTS USED VOICES AND INSTRUMENTS TO TAKE A STAND AGAINST SYSTEMIC JUSTICE DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA IN HARLEM.

'METROFOCUS' STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪

> THIS IS 'METROFOCUS,' WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

> 'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY --

> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS.'

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

DURING SEGREGATION, BLACK MUSICIANS UNDER WENT EXTREME DIFFICULTIES JUST TO BE ABLE TO PLAY IN FRONT OF LIVE AUDIENCES.

RACIST ATTITUDES AND EXCLUSIONARY POLICIES MADE IT NOTORIOUSLY DIFFICULT AND DANGEROUS FOR BLACK ARTISTS TO TOUR, AS MANY HOTELS, RESTAURANTS AND, BARS REFUSED TO SERVE OR EVEN LET IN THESE ARTISTS, SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.

LUCKILY, THERE WAS A LARGE NETWORK OF BUSINESS OWNERS WHO WERE FRIENDLY TO BLACK AMERICANS, AND IN A PREINTERNET ERA, THE WAY TO FIND THESE WAS THROUGH A NEGRO TRAVELER'S GREEN BOOK.

A NEW PBS DOCUMENTARY AVAILABLE TO STREAM ON PBS PASSPORT ENTITLED 'THE MUSICIAN'S GREEN BOOK,' SHOWED HOW THE GREATEST TALENTS USED TO BOOK TO ENSURE THEY COULD TRAVEL THE COUNTRY SAFELY AND SHARE THEIR GIFTS WITH OTHERS.

HERE'S A QUICK LOOK.

WHETHER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DUKE ELLINGTON, COUNT BASIE, ELLA FITZGERALD, THEY HAD TO KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE OPPRESSION.

THE GREEN BOOK WAS THE BIBLE FOR BLOCK MUSICIANS.

FIRST HOTEL I'VE EVER BEEN TO IN MY LIFE, WE GET THERE, THEY SAY, [ BLEEP ] CAN'T STAY THERE.

WE COULD NOT CHECK INTO THE SAME HOTEL NO MIAMI BECAUSE IT WAS THREE BLACKS AND THREE WHITES IN A BAND.

WE COULD NEVER EAT AT THE ARENA OR VENUE WE PERFORMED AT.

IN THE 1930s, DUKE ELTON HAD A TRAIN CAR TO AVOID CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE THAT.

YOU NEEDED TO FIND PLACES THAT WOULD ALLOW TO YOU EAT, ALLOW TO YOU BUY GAS, ALLOW TO YOU SLEEP.

IF YOU WENT TO THE WRONG PLACES, YOU PROBABLY WERE RISKING YOUR LIFE.

AND JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS THE MUSICIAN'S GREEN BOOK, AN ENDURING LEGACY IS JOSEPHINE BEAVERS, THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AND HOST OF THE DOCUMENTARY AND A RENOWNED JAZZ SINGER.

WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS,' JOSEPHINE.

WELL, THANK YOU.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU THIS MORNING, THIS AFTERNOON.

ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

ANY TIME IS A GREAT TIME.

BUT I JUST WANT TO YOU HELP GIVE THE AUDIENCE A SENSE.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE PERHAPS FAMILIAR WITH THE MOVIE 'GREEN BOOK', BUT SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS DOCUMENTARY, HOW LONG OF A TIME PERIOD ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

WE'RE LOOKING FROM PROBABLY THE '30s UP UNTIL THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT WAS IMPLEMENTED, AND THAT'S ABOUT THE TIME PERIOD WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

ALL RIGHT.

AND SO HOW MUCH WOULD THIS RELATE?

BECAUSE AGAIN, FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE ANY REFERENCE POINT THEY WOULD BE THINKING OF THE MOVIE.

IN TERMS OF THE DOCUMENTARY, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD GIVE YOU A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT OR WHAT MORE YOU WOULD BE GETTING FROM THIS DOCUMENTARY.

WHAT WE DID WAS TAKE A DEEP DIVE INTO REALLY WHAT THE GREEN BOOK REPRESENTED AND HOW PEOPLE USED THE GREEN BOOK.

AND WE WERE LUCKY ENOUGH AND FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE ACTUAL PERFORMERS, MUSICIANS THAT EXPERIENCED IT ON THE CHITLIN' -- USED IT ON THE CHITLIN' CIRCUIT ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

AND LIKE I SAID, WE WERE VERY LUCKY TO HAVE THEM.

AND THEY'RE WORKING TODAY.

IN FACT, EVERYONE ON THE DOCUMENTARY IS AUTHENTIC.

THEY'RE PLAYING TODAY.

THEY'RE PLAYING WITH YOUNGER AUDIENCES.

SO THAT'S REALLY THE LEGACY BEHIND THE MUSICIAN'S GREEN BOOK.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THIS INFAMOUS GREEN BOOK, SPECIFICALLY WHAT KIND OF STUFF DID VICTOR HUGO GREEN MAKE SURE TO INCLUDE TO LET PEOPLE KNOW WHERE WAS SAFE AND WHERE WASN'T SAFE?

WELL, HE INCLUDED HOTELS, MOTELS, ROOMING HOUSES, RESTAURANTS, EVEN GAS STATIONS ALONG THE ROAD, BECAUSE IF YOU STOPPED AT THE WRONG GAS STATION, YOU MIGHT NOT MAKE IT TO YOUR DESTINATION.

LIKE I SAID, PLACES TO EAT, TO REST ALONG THE WAY.

I ALSO WANT TO CIRCLE BACK TO SOMETHING ELSE YOU MENTIONED, AND THAT WAS THE PHRASE THE CHITLIN' CIRCUIT.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT NOT HAVE HEARD THAT BEFORE.

SOME PEOPLE SAY, THAT'S OFFENSIVE.

CAN YOU TELL US WHERE THE PHRASE CAME FROM AND WHAT IT REFERS TO?

I'M NOT SURE WHERE IT CAME FROM, BUT IT REFERS TO THE ROUTES PEOPLE TOOK TO GET FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER.

COMING FROM NEW YORK TO WASHINGTON AND DOWN TO ATLANTA.

AND IT WAS JUST THEY NAMED IT THAT BECAUSE -- WELL, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT CHITLIN'S ARE, EITHER.

ESPECIALLY PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE.

SO THAT WAS JUST A WORD THAT WAS CHOSEN, YOU KNOW, BEFORE -- CHITLIN' CIRCUIT.

IT'S A SOUL FOOD, AND PROBABLY THEY ATE A LOT OF CHITLIN'S ALONG THE WAY.

ANOTHER QUESTION IS BECAUSE YOU ARE A WORLD RENOWNED JAZZ SINGER, BUT OF COURSE YOU'RE IN THE FAMILY BUSINESS, AND YOUR MOM, AS I UNDERSTAND, ALSO TOURED AT THAT TIME AND WOULD HAVE USED THE GREEN BOOK AND TOWARD ON THE CHITLIN' CIRCUIT.

CAN YOU JUST TELL US SOME OF YOUR MEMORIES OF WHAT THAT WAS LIKE?

OH, BOY.

MOM WOULD LEAVE AND BE GONE FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS.

I WAS MUCH, MUCH YOUNGER, AND I WAS WONDERING WHERE MY MOM WAS GOING.

LATER I REALIZE SHE WAS TRAVELING WITH COUNT BASIE OR DUKE ELLINGTON.

ALSO, DURING THAT PERIOD WE LIVED VERY CLOSE TO THE HOWARD THEATER AND MY MOM KNEW A LOT OF PERFORMERS WHO WOULD COME TO THE HOWARD, AND WE WERE ONE OF THE HOST HOMES THAT THEY WOULD COME TO TO BE FED, TO REST, TO RELAX BETWEEN SHOWS.

ONE OF MY MOM'S BEST FRIENDS WAS AL HIBBLER, WHO, HE DID UNCHAINED MELODY.

THAT'S WHAT MADE HIM FAMOUS.

SO SHE GOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE A LOT OF THE ACTS THAT CAME THROUGH THE HOWARD THEATER.

WHEN YOU SAY HOST HOMES -- I WANT EVERYTHING TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR TO PEOPLE.

WHAT WERE HOST HOMES AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THEM ON THE CHITLIN' CIRCUIT?

HOST HOMES WERE PLACES WE WERE WELCOME TO STAY.

THEY COULD BE BOARDING HOUSES, SOMEONE'S ROOM IN THEIR HOME.

THERE WAS AN INDUSTRY CREATED WITH THIS.

HOTELS, RESTAURANTS.

BUT THE HOST HOMES ARE WHERE WE WOULD BE WELCOME, WE'D BE SAFE.

WHEN YOU MENTIONED BEING SO CLOSE AND, MY GOODNESS, MY BRAIN IS LOSING THE NAME OF THE THEATER YOU JUST MENTIONED, BUT SEEING SOME OF THOSE NOW NOTABLE AMERICAN ACTS, COUNT BASIE, ET CETERA, HOW DID ANY -- OR DID ANY OF THEM INFLUENCE YOU AND THE MUSIC THAT YOU PERFORM NOW?

DEFINITELY THEY DID.

I THINK I WAS BROUGHT UP ON THIS MUSIC AND IT JUST STAYED PART OF ME.

MY MOM WOULD REHEARSE AT THE HOUSE WITH OUR BAND, HER TRIO, AND I REALLY STARTED HEARING IT WHEN I WAS ABOUT 3 YEARS OLD.

IT WAS SOMETHING THAT STUCK WITH ME.

I LOVED THE GREAT AMERICAN SONG BOOK.

I LOVE ALL THE MUSIC.

I CONSIDER THEM OUR CLASSICS, THE AMERICAN CLASSICS.

AND I HAVE BEEN LOVING -- IN LOVE WITH THEM EVER SINCE I TOOK SOME BREAKS ALONG THE WAY, BUT THIS IS THE MUSIC THAT IS IN MY HEART.

YOU KNOW, WHENEVER WORKING ON A DOCUMENTARY OF ANY KIND, REGARDLESS OF I THINK HOW PASSIONATE SOMEONE IS GOING INTO IT, THERE'S ALWAYS STUFF THAT YOU LEARN ALONG THE WAY THAT MIGHT BE SURPRISING, AND I'M WONDERING IF IN CONDUCTING THESE INTERVIEWS IN THE RESEARCH FOR THIS FILM, WERE THERE THINGS THAT WERE JUST EYE OPENING FOR YOU THAT YOU HADN'T THOUGHT OR CONSIDERED BEFORE?

WELL, BASICALLY EVERYTHING WAS EYE OPENING.

THIS WAS OUR FIRST EXPERIENCE IN DOING A FILM -- EXCUSE ME -- AND WE DIDN'T REALLY REALIZE ALL THE INTRICATE PARTS THAT WOULD GO INTO IT.

SO IT WAS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE FOR ALL OF US, BUT IT WAS ALSO A LABOR OF LOVE SOME WE HAD WONDERFUL PEOPLE GUIDING SCHOOL BUS HELPING US, AND EVERYONE THAT WAS ON THE PROJECT REALLY GOT THE VIBE OF WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT THE LOVE OF US TAKING CARE OF EACH OTHER AS WE TRAVELLED THE ROAD AND HAD CHALLENGES THAT OTHER PEOPLE MAY NOT HAVE.

IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE GREEN BOOK AND OF COURSE THE CHITLIN' CIRCUIT FOR PERFORMERS, HOW DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WOULD HAVE IMPACTED THE AMERICAN CULTURAL LANDSCAPE, I GUESS, WOULD BE THE BEST WAY OF PUTTING IT?

BECAUSE THIS ALLOWS FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO, AS I SAID IN THE INTRO, TO SHARE THEIR MUSIC AND THEIR ART, WHICH OF COURSE THEN SHAPED THE WAY A LOT OF AMERICAN CULTURE BEGAN TO BROW AND DEVELOP.

BUT HAD THOSE THINGS NOT BEEN IN EXISTENCE, DO YOU THINK THAT WE WOULD HAVE THE AMERICAN CULTURE THAT WE'VE COME TO KNOW AND LOVE?

WELL, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY NOT, BUT THE WHOLE FOUNDATION OF THIS SHOW IS THE MUSIC, AND WITHOUT THE MUSIC, OF COURSE, WOULDN'T BE MUSICIANS.

WITHOUT THE MUSICIANS THERE WOULDN'T BE CULTURE, WITHOUT THE CULTURE THERE WOULDN'T BE THE GREEN BOOK, AND WITHOUT THE GLEAN BOOK, WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO MUSICAL GREEN BOOK.

OF COURSE.

THAT'S AN EXCELLENT WAY TO PUT IT.

BEFORE WE PART WAYS -- WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE SOME PERFORMANCES COMING UP IN NEW YORK CITY, AND I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD SHARE THOSE WITH US.

YES.

I'M SO EXCITED.

THIS WILL BE A RETURN VISIT FOR ME TO 54 BELOW, AND WE'LL BE THERE ON THE SIXTH OF DECEMBER AND THE 29th OF DECEMBER.

WE'LL BE SINGING SOME CHRISTMAS SONGS ON THE 6th AND INTRODUCING WHAT I HOPE WILL BECOME MY PERSONAL CHRISTMAS SONG, CHRISTMAS FOREVER.

OH, CHRISTMAS FOREVER.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

LAST QUESTION -- WHAT WOULD YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE AWAY FROM THIS DOCUMENTARY THAT YOU PUT TOGETHER?

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE -- FOR YOU, THE MOST IMPORTANT TAKEAWAY FOR VIEWERS?

TO ME, THE MOST IMPORTANT ACTUALLY LOVE FOR EACH OTHER.

I MEAN, WE NEED THAT MORE THAN EVER RIGHT NOW.

I WANTED TO -- IT'S JOYOUS WHEN YOU SEE IT.

YOU'LL SEE THE JOY ON FACES AS THEY TALK ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES.

I MEAN, IT'S A REALLY, REALLY UPLIFTING DOCUMENTARY.

YOU WALK AWAY SMILING, I THINK.

♪♪

> HI, I'M JENNA FLANAGAN OAF 'METROFOCUS.'

WHEN EPIX PREMIERED THE GODFATHER OF HARLEM, IT NOT ONLY TOLD THE STORY OF BUMPY JOHNSON, IT ALSO SHOWED A COMMUNITY PUSHING FOR SOCIAL CHANGE.

AMERICA'S MOST FAMOUS BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD IS KNOWN FOR ITS INNOVATIVE, SOMETIMES PROVOCATIVE AND CONSISTENTLY GROUND BREAKING SOCIAL SCENE, AND IT'S FRONT IN CENTER ON A SERIES ON EPIX.

IN HARLEM, THINGS WERE COMING TO A HEAD.

MUSIC BECAME A GUIDING FORCE.

IT GAVE A SENSE OF COMMUNITY.

WE STARTED A REVOLUTION.

THERE WAS A TRANSITION HAPPENING.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT HARLEM, THE PEOPLE, THEY WERE TRYING TO BE TREATED WITH RESPECT.

THE ONLY THING EVERYONE AGREED ON -- IT WAS TIME FOR REAL CHANGE.

THAT WAS JUST A CLIP OF SOME OF THE FOUR-PART DOCUSERIES, 'BY WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY: THE TIMES OF GODFATHER HARLEM,' AND I'D LIKE TO WELCOME THE SERIES DIRECTOR AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, KEITH McQUIRTER.

KEITH, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

AND MUSICIAN AND VOCALIST ROBIN CLARK, WHO'S ALSO FEATURED IN THE SERIES.

ROBIN, WELCOME.

THANK YOU.

IT'S A PLEASURE BEING HERE.

I'M GLAD TO HAVE YOU BOTH ON.

KEITH, I WANT TO START WITH YOU AND ASK, HOW DID THIS DOCUMENTARY COME TOGETHER?

THE GODFATHER OF HARLEM IS AN IMPRESSIVE SERIES ALL ON ITS OWN, BUT WHAT WAS THE INSPIRATION FOR THIS DOCUMENTARY SERIES?

WELL, I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE PRODUCERS OF THE SCRIPTED SERIES, AND THEY HAD CREATED A REALLY EXCITED FAN BASE FOR THE SERIES, AND THEY WERE GOING INTO THEIR SECOND SEASON.

AND THEY WANTED TO KEEP THE FANS IN THE WORLD OF HARLEM.

AND SO I PITCHED THE IDEA OF DOING A DOCUMENTARY SERIES AND EXPLORING THE CULTURE AND POLITICS THROUGH MUSIC AS A WAY TO TAKE A DEEP DIVE INTO THAT TIME PERIOD IN HARLEM.

THAT'S KIND OF HOW IT ALL CAME TOGETHER AND CAME ABOUT.

OKAY.

AND WHAT STRUCK ME MOST WAS THE FRONT AND CENTER LINK BETWEEN MUSIC AND, IF YOU WILL, POPULAR OR POP CULTURE, WHICH CAN SOMETIMES BE DISMISSED AS FRIVOLOUS.

AND THE ROLE THAT THAT PLAYED IN CREATING THE SPACE FOR SOCIAL CHANGE.

WHY WAS THAT PLACED SO FRONT AND CENTER IN THIS DOCUSERIES?

BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH TO LOOK AT WHEN IT COMES TO MUSIC AND POLITICS NOT ONLY IN THE 1960s, BUT TODAY, WHAT'S GOING ON TODAY.

SO 2020 HAS BEEN A YEAR OF CHANGE AND AN EYE-OPENING YEAR FOR SO MANY PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD, AND SO, YOU KNOW, TAKING A LOOK AT 1960s AS A PARALLEL WAS AN AWESOME OPPORTUNITY.

AND SO WHAT WE FOUND WAS, FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, THE TWIST BY CHUBBY CHECKER IS AN INCIDENT POP SONG FOR MOST PEOPLE THAT YOU CAN DANCE TO AND IT'S FUN.

BUT THERE WAS A REAL MESSAGE IN THAT SONG.

YOU KNOW, IT BROUGHT BLACK CULTURE INTO WHITE HOUSEHOLDS FOR THE FIRST TIME, AND THE WHITE TEENAGERS WERE -- TOOK ON THIS DANCE CRAZE, AND IT WAS UNSTOPPABLE.

SO JAMAL JOSEPH, WHO WE INTERVIEW IN OUR SERIESING A PROFESSOR AT COLUMBIA, BUT WAS A BLACK PANTHER IN THE '60s QUOTED ELDRIDGE CLEAVER WHO SAID THE TWIST DID MORE PUSHING CULTURE FORWARD THAN LAW, POLITICS AND RELIGION COULD EVER DO.

THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE OF HOW POP CULTURE IS SO INTEGRATED INTO, YOU KNOW, OUR EVERYDAY LIVES THAT WE TAKE FOR GRANTED OFTEN TIMES.

AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT I FOUND TO BE SO UNIQUELY INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS THAT THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A NARRATIVE WE REALLY FULLY EXPLORE.

ROBIN, I WANT TO TURN TO YOU AND ASK, FIRST OFF, HOW DID YOU GET INVOLVED WITH THIS PROJECT?

WE GOT A PHONE CALL FROM ONE OF THE PRODUCERS OF THE SHOW, AND I WAS ASKED TO DO IT.

MY HUSBAND WAS ACTUALLY ASKED TO DO IT, AND I STARTED TALKING IN THE BACKGROUND AND THE PERSON SAID, CAN I SPEAK WITH YOUR WIFE AS WELL?

THAT'S WHY I'M HERE.

THAT'S HOW I GOT HERE.

WELL, THEN, GIVEN YOUR PERSPECTIVE, I'M WONDERING IF THROUGH YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THIS, AND EVEN SOME OF THE POINTS THAT KEITH WAS MAKING, DID IT CHANGE THE WAY THAT YOU LOOKED AT THE ROLE YOUR CAREER PLAYED IN A LARGER MOVEMENT?

OR DID IT SORT OF REENFORCE SOMETHING THAT YOU ALREADY KNOW BUT WAS BEING BETTER EXPLAINED TO A LARGER AUDIENCE?

I THINK IT REINFORCED SOMETHING I ALREADY KNEW.

I START IN THE A GROUP NAMED 'LISTEN MY BROTHER' WITH LUTHER VANDROSS AT THE APOLLO THEATER.

WE SANG SONGS ABOUT THE TIME WE WERE LIVING IN.

SO THERE WERE SONGS OF EMPOWERMENT.

SO WE WERE EMPOWERED AT AN EARLY AGE.

THE MOVEMENT WAS STARTING TO HAPPEN.

WE WERE TERRIFIED, BUT WE WERE ENGAGED AT THE SAME TIME, AND BECAUSE OF THAT APOLLO THEATER AND THE SONGS AND THE REPERTORY THAT WE DID, IT REALLY GOT US IN TOUCH WITH OURSELVES AND OUR CULTURE AND OUR BLACKNESS, AND FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OUR LIVES TO NOT BE AFRAID TO SAY, I AM BLACK AND I AM PROUD.

UNTIL THEN, DIDN'T HEAR A LOT OF, I'M BLACK AND I'M PROUD.

SO WE WERE REINFORCED -- I WAS REINFORCED AS A TEENAGER IN THE UNDERSTANDING THAT I COULD DO SOMETHING FOR MY CULTURE, AND I COULD PROBABLY DO IT THROUGH MUSIC, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING.

BUT WE HAD BEEN EMPOWERED AT THAT POINT IN TIME IN OUR LIVES, I WOULD SAY 16, 17 YEARS OLD.

WHAT IT DID WAS -- EXCUSE ME -- JUST REINFORCE WHERE I STARTED AND WHAT I KNEW.

ABSOLUTELY.

AND THE NOTION, I THINK, OF BEING THAT KID SOMETIMES CAN, AGAIN, BE SOMETHING THAT'S EASILY DISMISSED, BUT IF YOU LOOK THROUGHOUT HISTORY, IT'S FREQUENTLY YOUNG PEOPLE WHERE THESE LARGE SOCIAL MOVEMENTS GERMINATE.

KEITH, I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK ALSO ABOUT JUST THE PERSPECTIVE, I GUESS, OF THE DOCUMENTARY.

BECAUSE THE SERIES, OF COURSE, IS TOLD FROM VERY MUCH BUMPY'S POINT OF VIEW WITHOUT GIVING AWAY TOO MUCH, BUT COMING OUT OF JAIL FROM BEING LOCKED UP FOR TEN YEARS INTO A TRANSFORMED HARLEM IN THE 1960s.

AND SO MANY GANGSTER MOVIES FOR LACK OF A BETTER DESCRIPTION, OR SERIES, ARE MARKED BY THEIR SOUNDTRACKS AND I'M WONDERING IF THE SOUNDTRACK OF THE MOVEMENT WAS AS IMPORTANT IN TELLING THE STORY.

100%. I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE GODFATHER OF HARLEM, AND WHEN YOU -- BUMPY JOHNSON'S STORY, IT'S ABOUT THE CRIMINAL UNDERWORLD OF THAT TIME PERIOD.

BUT THE MESSAGE IN THAT STORY IS A CIVIL RIGHTS STORY, TOO.

BUMPY JOHNSON WAS SEEKING ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT THROUGH THE CRIME WORLD WHERE A TIME WHEN A BLACK MAN HAD LIMITED OPPORTUNIIES.

YOU SEE HIM JUST PLOWING THROUGH BARRIERS.

THE DOCUMENTARY SERIES TAKES LOOK AT A DIFFERENT PALETTE.

THE CONNECTIVE TISSUE IS A TIME PERIOD AND HARLEM AND A LOT OF KEY PLAYERS THAT ARE IN THE SCRIPTED SERIES LIKE MALCOLM X, CLAYTON POWELL, BUMPY JOHNSON AND SO MANY OTHERS.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY WANTED TO TAKE A COMPREHENSIVE LOOK AT HOW MUSIC WAS ENGAGING THE COUNTRY THROUGH THE P.O.V. OF HARLEM.

SO WE LOOK AT 1960 TO 1969 AND SEE THE EARLY PART OF THE DECADE, WE LOOK AT GOSPEL MUSIC, WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, UNIVERSAL AS FAR AS BLACK AMERICANS ARE CONCERNED.

YOU KNOW, IN THE CHURCH AND HOW THE CHURCH WAS SO MUCH OF A CENTER OF OUR COMMUNITY.

AND HOW THOSE GOSPEL SONGS TRANSITIONED TO FREEDOM SONGS DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND INCORPORATED INTO THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON AND SO MANY OTHER MARCHES, AND THOSE WERE THE SOUNDS YOU'RE HEARING.

WE GO FROM THERE TO JAZZ AND LOOK AT HOW JAZZ WAS IMPACTFUL, HOW JAZZ TOOK ON -- JOHN COLTRANE, WHEN THE FOUR GIRLS MURDERED IN THE CHURCH BOMBING IN BIRMINGHAM, COLTRANE CREATED A SONG CALLED 'ALABAMA' THAT FOLLOWED THE EULOGY OF MARTIN LUTHER KING.

BLACK POWER THAT -- TALKED ABOUT, BUT ALSO THE EMERGENCE OF THE LAST POETS.

YOU SEE CURTIS MAYFIELD WHO HAS A COMPLETE TRAJECTORY FROM EARLY PARTS OF THE DECADE TO THE END PART OF THE DECADE WHEN HE WAS MORE POP AND MORE FEEL GOOD.

BY THE END OF THE DECADE, HE WAS MORE -- HE MADE A SONG WHICH CALLS OUT THE CORRUPTION AND INJUSTICES AND POLLUTION, AND HE'S SAYING, LISTEN, WE HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO FIX THEM, WE'RE ALL GOING TO HELL, AND IT'S GOING TO BE OUR DOWNFALL.

AND HE'S TALKING ABOUT EVERYONE ACROSS THE BOARD.

SO YOU HAVE JUST THIS BOW OF MUSIC THAT TELLS A STORY OF HOW BLACK PEOPLE WERE STARTING TO BECOME EMPOWERED THROUGH THAT DECADE.

SO THIS IS WHAT THE SERIES REALLY TAKES A LOOK AT.

BUILDING ON THAT, BECAUSE EARLIER YOU DID MENTION THAT A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE '60s IN TERM OF CULTURE AND MUSIC HELPED CHANGE THINGS, AND THAT'S STILL TRUE FOR TODAY.

AND EVEN JUST IN YOUR DESCRIPTION OF BUMPY JOHNSON, A BLACK MAN COMING OUT OF JAIL WITH NOT A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES, HONESTLY SOUND LIKES THE BIO OF SOME POPULAR RAPPERS TODAY.

SO I'M WONDERING IF YOU SEE ANY SIMILARITIES AT ALL OR ANY COMMON THREADS BETWEEN THE MUSIC AND THE CULTURE AND THE SOCIAL MOVEMENT THAT SORT OF FUELED THEM OR VICE VERSA AS OPPOSED TO TODAY, THE '60s VERSUS NOW.

HIP-HOP HAS ALWAYS BEEN FRONT AND CENTER WHEN IT CAME TO ACTIVISM AND SPEAKING TRUTH TO POWER AND SPEAKING PLAINLY WHAT ONE'S EXPERIENCE IS FROM THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD SOME IT WASN'T ALWAYS AN INCLUSIVE ART FORM.

IT'S VERY SPECIFIC TO A POPULATION, AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT SO STRONG AND SO GREAT.

BUT NOW I THINK, YOU KNOW, BEYOND HIP-HOP, WE'RE SEEING, LIKE A -- EMERGENCE OF -- IF YOU LOOK AT BEYONCE FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE BIGGEST POP STARS WE HAVE, HER MUSIC HAS ITS OWN ARC, RIGHT?

WHERE SHE'S NOW UNAFRAID TO SPEAK THE POWER.

HER PERFORMANCE AT THE SUPER BOWL A FEW YEARS BACK WAS VERY MUCH AN EMPOWERMENT PERFORMANCE.

IF YOU LOOK AT J.LO, SAME THINGS.

HER PERFORMANCE IN THE SUPER BOWL THIS YEAR WAS A DIRECT -- SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO THE ISSUES HAPPENING AT THE BORDER, AND HOW IMMIGRANTS WERE UNDER ATTACK UNDER THIS CURRENT CLIMATE.

AND SO THE LIST IS LONG, AND WE'VE SEEN A PROLIFERATION OF ARTISTS KNOWN AND UNKNOWN WHO ARE MAKING MUSIC IN HIGH NUMBERS LIKE WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

THE '60s WAS JUST ONE MAJOR STEPPINGSTONE FOR ARTISTS TODAY -- THE ARTISTS TODAY CAME FROM.

BECAUSE IN THE '60s THEY WERE DOING IT IN WAYS WE HADN'T SEEN BEFORE THAT TIME.

ACTUALLY, ROBIN, I WANT TO BRING YOU IN ON THIS AND JUST ASK AS A MUSICIAN, ARE THERE ANY ASPECTS OF THE RHYTHMS AND THE BEATS OF THAT TIME THAT YOU STILL HEAR CARRYING THROUGH TODAY, JUST MUSICALLY?

ABSOLUTELY.

MARVIN GAY IS THE SOUNDTRACK OF THIS GENERATION AS WELL AS MY GENERATION.

MARVIN GAY, HIS SOUNDTRACK, ARETHA FRANKLIN, THE IMPRESSIONS, JAMES BROWN, HUGE INFLUENCE IN HIP-HOP.

SAMPLED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THAT MUSIC FROM THE '60s TOTALLY INSPIRED HIP-HOP, THIS GENERATION NOW.

THE LAST POETS ARE --

I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, THE LAST POETS.

YOU KNOW, THE LAST POETS WERE --

FATHERS OF HIP-HOP, RIGHT?

I CAN'T EVEN -- THE FOUNDERS, THE FOUNDING FATHERS OF HIP-HOP, ALONG WITH, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, CAB CALLOWAY.

GO BACK THAT FAR.

THIS MUSIC THAT'S HAPPENING NOW, THE NEW GENERATION OF MUSIC, THE HIP-HOP, THE R&B THAT'S HAPPENING NOW, IT'S ALL RECYCLED.

MM-HMM.

A LOT OF RECYCLING GOING ON.

YES, NEW LYRICS ABOUT THE TIME WE'RE LIVING IN, BUT I HAVE BEEN IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS FOR 51 YEARS.

I'VE SUNG FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

I'VE HEARD THE SAME THEMES RUNNING THROUGH THE MUSIC FOR DECADES.

WELL, UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE, ALTHOUGH I COULD ABSOLUTELY CONTINUE WITH THIS CONVERSATION.

BUT KEITH, VERY QUICKLY, FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE ABLE TO SEE THIS DOCUSERIES, 'BY WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY: THE TIMES OF GODFATHER HARLEM,' WHERE CAN THEY FIND IT?

YOU CAN GO TO EPIX.COM AND YOU CAN STREAM IT THROUGH THEIR APPS.

YOU CAN GO TO AMAZON PRIME AS WELL AND STREAM IT THROUGH AMAZON PRIME.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, LISTEN, KEITH McQUIRTER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING US THIS DOCUSERIES, AND ROBIN CLARK, YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO NOT ONLY THE DOCUMENTARY SERIES BUT MUSIC ARE IMMEASURABLE, SO THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING ME.

> 'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.