MetroFocus: October 31, 2022

Encore: December 13, 2022

EXPLORING HATE: “WHITE FEAR

Nationally-acclaimed journalist Roland Martin discusses his eye-opening new book, “White Fear: How the Browning of America Is Making White Folks Lose Their Minds.” With the U.S. expected to become a majority-minority nation as early as 2043, Martin argues the deep-seated fear that many white people currently feel — of losing power, economic standing, or a particular way of life — has been a driving force in shaping society and fueling a modern day racial war.

 

TRANSCRIPT

> TONIGHT NATIONALLY ACCLAIMED JOURNALIST ROLAND MARTIN AND HIS EYE-OPENING NEW BOOK 'WHITE FEAR: HOW THE BROWNING OF AMERICA IS MAKING WHITE FOLKS LOSE THEIR MINDS.'

HIS POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS FOR ROUTING OUT RACISM IN OUR DAILY LIVES AND CONFRONTING OUR COMPLICATED HISTORY ON RACE.

'METROFOCUS' STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪

> THIS IS 'METROFOCUS' WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND BY --

> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS.'

I'M JACK FORD.

TONIGHT OUR EXPLORING HATE SERIES IS BACK WITH JOURNALIST ROLAND MARTIN IN A REVEALING LIKE AT WHITE SUPREMACY, PRIVILEGE, AND SYSTEMIC RACISM IN AMERICA.

MARTIN'S EYE-OPENING NEW BOOK TITLED 'WHITE FEAR: HOW THE BROWNING OF AMERICA IS MAKING WHITE FOLKS LOSE THEIR MINDS,' THE DEEP-SEATED FEEL MANY FEEL LOSING POWER, ECONOMIC STANDING OR A PARTICULAR WAY OF LIFE HAS BEEN A DRIVING FORCE IN SHAPING SOCIETY AND FUELING MODERN RACIAL STRIFE.

HE ALSO OFFERS US A POSSIBLE BETTER WAY FORWARD AND SOLUTIONS TO THE COMPLEX RACIAL ISSUES WE ARE CURRENTLY FACING, AND WE'RE DELIGHTED TO HAVE ROLAND MARTIN, HOST OF THE DAILY DIGITAL SHOW JOIN US AS PART OF OUR EXPLORING HATE, EXAMINING THE INTERSECTION OF ANTI-SEMITISM, RACISM AND EXTREMISM IN AMERICA.

ROLAND, WELCOME.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

GLAD TO BE HERE.

IT IS A VERY COMPELLING BOOK.

YOU OFFER, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER AND WE'LL TOUCH BASE WITH SOME OF THEM, YOU OFFER INSIGHTS ON THE PROBLEMS THEMSELVES, THE GENESIS OF THESE PROBLEMS, HOW THEY'VE BEEN PLAYING OUT, BUT YOU ALSO OFFER SOME SUGGESTIONS FROM MOVING FORWARD WHICH I THINK IS ESSENTIAL IN A CONVERSATION SUCH AS THIS.

LET'S START WITH A PART OF THE TITLE, WHICH I ALWAYS FIND INTERESTING, THE WORDS THAT AUTHORS USE HERE, AND YOU TALK ABOUT WHITE FEAR.

HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE FOR US WHAT YOU MEAN BY WHITE FEAR?

WELL, IT REALLY STARTED AND REALLY HIT ME IN 2009 SHORTLY AFTER AND AROUND THE INAUGURATION OF BARACK OBAMA.

THERE WAS A SURVEY TAKEN.

THE QUESTION WAS ASKED, ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE OF AMERICA?

AND AFRICAN AMERICANS, LATINOS, ASIANS, THE MAJORITY WERE OPTIMISTIC.

THERE WAS ONLY ONE GROUP THAT WAS LESS THE MAJORITY, WHITE AMERICANS.

I BEGAN TO JUST REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT AND BEGAN TO DO MORE RESEARCH AND STUDY, AND JOHN AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT HIS BOOK 'WING NUTS' AND TOUCHED ON SOME OF THIS AS WELL.

AND I SAID, JOHN, I BROUGHT THIS POLL UP AND I SAID, JOHN, WE ARE LIVING IN THE BEGINNING STAGES OF WHITE MINORITY RESISTANCE.

HE GOES, WHAT?

WHAT'S THAT?

I SAID, WE'RE LIVING IN THIS AGE NOW WHERE WHITE AMERICANS ARE FEARFUL ABOUT THE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS OF THIS COUNTRY.

AND I SAID AND IT'S CLEAR THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU BEGIN TO SEE THAT.

YOU BEGIN TO SEE THE GLENN BECKS OF THE WORLD, OBAMA HATES WHITE PEOPLE, YOU BEGIN TO SEE HOW HE WAS BEING ATTACKED.

YOU BEGIN TO SEE ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS HAPPEN, AND I SAID EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE STILL IN THE MAJORITY, I SAID THE FUTURE CHANGES, BECAUSE I REMEMBER 30-PLUS YEARS AGO WHEN IT CAME OUT, AMERICA IS GOING TO BE A NATION OF A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE OF COLOR.

GUESS WHAT, WE'RE 21 YEARS AWAY FROM THAT NOW.

YOU SEE THAT RIGHT NOW THE MAJORITY OF KIDS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE BLACK AND BROWN.

IN SEPTEMBER 2016 ANOTHER POLL TAKEN AND I SAW IT AND SAID, WOW, ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE OF AMERICA ECONOMICALLY FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS?

BLACK AMERICANS, LOWEST WEALTH, HIGHEST OPTIMISM.

LATINOS, SECOND LOWEST WEALTH, SECOND HIGHEST OPTIMISM.

WHITE AMERICANS, BY AND FAR THE HIGHEST WEALTH IN AMERICA, LOWEST OPTIMISM.

AGAIN, YOU GO, WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT?

HOW?

YOU HAVE MORE MONEY THAN ANYBODY ELSE.

HOW ARE YOU LESS OPTIMISTIC?

AND YOU BEGIN TO SEE IT IN THE POLITICS, IN THE CONVERSATIONS, ABOUT THIS CHANGING AMERICA.

FOLKS WHO WERE LONGING FOR LONG DAYS PAST, HOW IT USED TO BE.

I WILL NEVER FORGET READING AN ARTICLE ON A GUY IN PENNSYLVANIA WHO WAS LAMENTING THAT, YOU KNOW, IT USED TO BE I COULD JUST MAKE A CALL TO MY SUPERVISOR AND GET MY SON HIRED ON WHEN I GOT HIRED IN 1973, AND I IMMEDIATELY SAID, WELL, HELL, COULD A BLACK FATHER DO THAT?

THE ANSWER IS NO.

I THOUGHT ABOUT LISTENING TO ALL THESE FOLKS ON MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

I REMEMBER 'MORNING JOE' AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, OH, YOU KNOW, HOW WAGES OF WHITE WORKING CLASS MEN HAVEN'T GONE UP MUCH SINCE THE EARLY '70s.

AND I IMMEDIATELY SAID, WELL, HAS IT DONNED ON FOLKS ABOUT BLACK WORKING MEN CLASS?

THIS CONSTANT, OH, MY GOD, WE'RE LOSING OUR WAY.

AS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN, WHEN I HEAR WE'RE LOSING OUR WAY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

AND THAT REALLY IS HOW THIS ALL BEGAN TO DEVELOP.

I SAW ALL THESE THINGS COMING AND COMING.

YOU-ALL, THIS IS HAPPENING AND IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE BEFORE IT GETS BETTER IF WE DON'T CONFRONT REALLY WHAT'S HAPPENING ALL ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.

LET ME GO BACK TO SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED A MINUTE AGO BECAUSE IT'S THE FIRST LINE IN YOUR BOOK.

THE FIRST LINE IN THE INTRODUCTION YOU TALK ABOUT THE YEAR 2043.

AND WHAT WE ANTICIPATE IS COMING.

ELABORATE ON THAT A LITTLE BIT.

THAT'S IT.

THEY ESTIMATE BY 2043 THAT IS WHEN THE SHIFT IS FINAL AND THAT IS AMERICA IS A NATION MAJORITY PEOPLE OF COLOR, LATINO, BLACK, ASIAN, NATIVE AMERICAN.

WHITES WILL BE 47% OF THE POPULATION.

BY 2039 THE MAJORITY OF THE WORKERS IN AMERICA, THE WORKING CLASS, IS GOING TO BE PEOPLE OF COLOR.

AGAIN, WE'VE BEEN SEEING THIS, WE'VE BEEN SEEING IT IN DIFFERENT SECTORS.

RIGHT NOW THE MAJORITY OF KIDS, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE 18 AND UNDER IN AMERICA, ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR.

AND SO, AGAIN, IF YOU ARE 18 TODAY, 21 YEARS FROM NOW, YOU WILL DEFINITELY BE MIDDLE AGED AND THAT'S WHEN IT HAPPENS.

I DO BELIEVE THIS DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFT.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT'S VERY INTERESTING, EVEN IN MEDIA, A PERFECT EXAMPLE AND, JACK, YOU'VE BEEN IN THE MEDIA AS I, WE COVER STORIES OF SO AND SO PRESIDENT, MET WITH A GROUP OF BLACK PASTORS OR SO AND SO MET WITH A GROUP OF LATINO LEADERS, BUT YOU NEVER EVER HEARD US SAY SO AND SO MET WITH A GROUP OF WHITE PASTORS.

WHY?

AMERICA HAS ALWAYS BEEN DEFINED THROUGH THE PRISM OF WHITENESS.

WE ALWAYS SELF-IDENTIFY BLACKS, LATINOS, ASIANS, NATIVE AMERICANS, EVEN TO SOME DEGREE WOMEN, BUT THE REALITY IF IT'S A ROOM FULL OF WHITE FOLKS WE NEVER ACTUALLY SAY THAT BECAUSE THE DEFAULT IN AMERICA HAS BEEN WHITENESS.

THAT HAS BEEN THE DEFAULT.

AND SO NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS THAT'S NO LONGER THE DEFAULT.

AND I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WHITE AMERICANS THAT'S UNCOMFORTABLE TO THEM TO NOW HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT.

WHEN WE TALK ON THE JOBS SIDE, ON THE EDUCATION SIDE, THE REALITY IS WHITE CHILDREN NOW HAVE TO COMPETE.

YOU NO LONGER HAVE A SITUATION WHERE THEY, FRANKLY, LIKE I SAID, THAT FATHER, HEY, WE CAN MAKE A PHONE CALL AND, BOOM, WE'RE IN.

I THINK WITH THE ATTACKS ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, ON EQUITY AND INCLUSION, ON CRITICAL RACE THEORY, MULTICULTURALISM, ALL OF THAT HAS BEEN A PART OF THIS BURGEONING AND THIS GROWING WHITE FEAR AND THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE, JACK, IS -- AND THIS IS HISTORICALLY THE PROBLEM WE HAVE -- IS WE GO, RACE IS NOT RACIST.

I'M NOT RACIST.

NOT RACIST.

THE ISSUE IS NOT ARE YOU RACIST OR NOT RACIST, IT'S WHAT'S ALL IN BETWEEN THAT?

THE IN BETWEEN, THAT IS THE REAL QUESTION WHERE WE ARE.

YOU DON'T HAVE THAT MANY PEOPLE WALK AROUND GOING, ABSOLUTELY, JACK, I AM RACIST.

NO.

BUT WHEN YOU EXAMINE PEOPLE'S SUBJECTIVE VIEWS, WHEN YOU EXAMINE THE THINGS THAT THEY SAY, WHEN YOU EXAMINE THOSE SORT OF DIFFERENT ATTITUDES, THAT'S THE IN BETWEEN AND THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS THE IN BETWEEN THAT I NEED PEOPLE TO CONFRONT.

AND THE PROBLEM IS DO THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES EVEN UNDERSTAND IT?

NO.

I WILL TELL YOU A QUICK STORY THAT TIES DIRECTLY INTO WHAT YOU SAID.

BEFORE I GOT INTO TELEVISION IN JOURNALISM, I WAS A TRIAL LAWYER.

I DEFEND ADD NUMBER OF DEATH PENALTY CASES.

ONE OF THEM, THE FIRST ONE IN THE NORTHEAST, A YOUNG BLACK MAN ACCUSED OF KILLING A WHITE MAN IN A DRUG DEAL THAT WENT BAD.

HE HAD DONE IT.

HE HAD CONFESSED.

THE QUESTION WAS, WAS HE GOING TO BE SENTENCED TO DEATH OR NOT?

AND IN PICKING THE JURY I WANTED TO PLUM JURORS' SENSES OF RELATIONSHIPS IN RACE, AND I HAD A JUDGE WHO WAS BASICALLY SAYING I'LL TAKE CARE OF THAT.

AND I SAID, WELL, I NEED TO ASK DEEPER QUESTIONS.

NO, I'LL ASK THEM.

IF ANY OF THEM HAVE ANY BIAS OR PREJUDICE THAT IS WOULD KEEP THEM FROM DOING THAT.

I SAID, JUDGE, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HAD SOMEBODY PUT UP THEIR HAND AND SAY, YES, I'M RACIST, I'M BIASED, I'M PREJUDICED.

WE HAD TO FIGHT TO DIG DEEPER INTO THESE ATTITUDES THAT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT NOT HAVE EVEN KNOW THEY ACTUALLY HAD.

YES.

AND I KNOW YOU TALK ABOUT THAT, THE NOTION -- YOU MENTION AND YOU QUOTE ANTI-RACISM, THE PROBLEM IS NOT WHITE INNOCENCE NOR IS IT WHITE PRIVILEGE.

THE PROBLEM IS WHITE IGNORANCE.

WHAT IS THAT?

YES.

THAT IS EXACTLY IT.

IT IS JUST WHAT YOU DESCRIBE AND SO, WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

I'M NOT RACIST.

I DIDN'T CALL YOU A RACIST.

BUT WHAT I AM DOING IS EXAMINING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

I'M EXAMINING THE CATCH PHRASES THAT YOU USE.

SEE, REVEREND JACKSON HAS LONG SAID THAT THE REASON AFRICAN AMERICANS PERFORM WELL IN SPORTS, HE SAID IT'S BECAUSE THE RULES ARE CLEAR, THEY'RE PUBLISHED, AND IT'S OBJECTIVE.

THE BASKETBALL COURT IS 94 FEET LONG.

GUESS WHAT, IT'S 10 FEET FROM THE -- THE GOAL IS UP 10 FEET, IT'S EQUAL DISTANCE FROM THE FREE-THROW LINE TO THE GOAL, YOU GET FIVE PLAYERS, I GET FIVE PLAYERS.

WE HAVE THE SAME NUMBER OF TIME-OUTS.

NOW IT'S GAME TIME.

WELL, EVERYTHING ELSE, THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

IT BECOMES ALL SUBJECTIVE.

AND THEN FOLKS ARE MAKING STATEMENTS AND MAKING JUDGMENTS ABOUT YOU AS A PERSON, WELL, THEY DON'T -- THEY DON'T FIT.

WHAT THE HELL WAS THEY DON'T FIT MEAN?

WELL, ALL THESE DIFFERENT EXPLANATIONS THAT ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

I'VE EXPERIENCED THEM IN MY CAREER AS WELL.

I HAVE COUNTLESS EXAMPLES.

AND I CENTER ON THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BECAUSE THEY ABSOLUTELY ARE A PARTY OF WHITE AMERICA.

THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE.

WHAT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS IT ALSO HAPPENS WITH DEMOCRATS.

BECAUSE THE CENTERPIECE HERE IS WHITE.

AND IT HAPPENS WHEN -- SO YOU COULD BE LIBERAL, YOU COULD BE CONSERVATIVE, BUT BECAUSE, SEE, LIBERALS GO, THAT'S NOT US.

IT'S THOSE CONSERVATIVES.

NO.

NO.

IT'S STILL THERE AS WELL.

YOU'RE SEEING THIS PLAY OUT RIGHT NOW IN HOLLYWOOD.

YOU HAVE ALL THIS ANGST.

I REMEMBER I READ THIS PIECE AND THERE WAS ANGER.

OH, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST DIFFICULT NOW.

FOR WHITE MEN TO GET JOBS.

DO YOU SEE ALL THE WHITE GUYS RUNNING STUFF IN POWER?

WHY ARE THEY SAYING THAT?

IN FACT, WHO WAS THE BIG WRITER, HE'S WRITTEN TONS OF BOOKS AND GOT BLASTED -- OH, IT'S HARD FOR A WHITE WRITER TO GET HIS BOOK PICKED UP TODAY.

WHERE IS THAT COMING FROM?

I KNOW WHY, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOW SEEING MORE BLACK WRITERS, MORE LATINO WRITERS, MORE BLACK SHOW RUNNERS, MORE BLACK DIRECTORS, BECAUSE YOU ARE USED TO ONLY SEEING WHITE MEN OR WHITE WOMEN GET THESE JOBS.

AND SO THEN THE FIGHTBACK IS THIS IS GROSSLY UNFAIR.

WE CAN'T GET HIRED ANYMORE.

NO, WHAT IT MEANS IS YOU NOW HAVE TO COMPETE AND THE AUDIENCE HAS CHANGED.

SO, YES, YOUR VIEW AS A WHITE MAN HAS TO BE NOW TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT BECAUSE CAN YOU -- CAN YOU NOW SEE, CAN YOU NOW TAKE INTO ACCOUNT DIFFERENT CULTURES IN YOUR SCRIPT, IN YOUR CASTING?

AND SO IT ALL COMES OUT IN OUR POLITICS.

IT COMES OUT IN BUSINESS.

IT USED TO BE, HEY, WE TARGETED WHITE AMERICA.

THAT'S WHERE OUR MONEY WAS.

BLACK FOLKS, LATINOS ARE MORE THA 2 TRILLION.

NOW YOU HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THESE ISSUES.

THIS WAS THE FUNNIEST THING, JACK, I WAS AT AN AD CONFERENCE.

A GUY STANDS UP, I HAVE A QUESTION.

I WAS DRIVING AND I SAW THIS BUS AND IT WAS A BILLBOARD AD ON THE BUS AND THE AD WAS IN SPANISH.

I'M JUST CURIOUS, IS THAT DRINK FOR ME?

AND THE WHOLE ROOM BUSTS OUT LAUGHING.

AND I WAS LIKE, NOW WELCOME TO OUR WORLD.

SO HE SAW AN AD IN SPANISH AND WAS WONDERING IF THE AD WAS FOR HIM, AND THE PANEL SAID, SO ALL THESE YEARS WHEN BLACKS AND LATINOS AND NATIVE AMERICANS SAW TV ADVERTISING AND MAGAZINE ADVERTISING AND IT WAS ALL WHITE PEOPLE, DID WE NOT BUY THE PRODUCTS?

IT'S THE CHANGE.

IT'S THE VISIBLE CHANGES CALLING FOR US TO GO, OKAY, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

THIS IS NOT THE AMERICA I KNEW.

AND SOAP THE PUSHBACK IS, WELL, CAN WE NOT SEE RACE?

WE'VE ALWAYS SEEN RACE.

SOMEBODY TELLS YOU I DON'T SEE COLOR, YOU LIE.

NOW WE HAVE TO CONFRONT IT AND PEOPLE HAVE TO START GOING INSIDE.

NOW WHAT WAS I TAUGHT?

WHAT WERE THE CONVERSATIONS WITH MY FRIENDS AND CO-WORKERS?

ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS.

THIS IS NOW THE RECKONING THEY HAVE TO NOW DEAL WITH.

AND I THINK YOU ARE SEEING IT PLAY OUT AND I'M TELLING YOU IT'S NOT GOING TO BE EASY BECAUSE -- KING TALKED ABOUT THIS IN HIS BOOK.

AND HE SAID -- HE WROTE, HE SAID, WHITE AMERICA IS NOT PREPARED TO DEAL WITH ITSELF.

BECAUSE WHITE AMERICA HAS NEVER HAD TO CONFRONT IT.

YEAH, WE PASSED LAWS, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT CONFRONT WHAT'S HERE AND WHAT'S IN HERE BECAUSE AMERICA, WE NEVER HAD A TRUE RECONCILIATION COMMISSION LIKE IN SOUTH AFRICA.

WE NEVER DEALT WITH THAT.

AND I THINK WE ARE SEEING THE RESULTS OF NOT CONFRONTING IN DEALING WITH WHAT HAS BEEN ARGUABLY THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL THING -- THE FUNDAMENTAL AMERICAN THEME AND THAT IS THE ISSUE OF RACE.

SO HOW DO WE -- AND THERE'S SO MUCH I WOULD WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS BOOK.

WE COULD GO ON FOR HOURS.

THERE ARE OTHER THINGS YOU TALK ABOUT, REDEFINING WHITE PRIVILEGE.

HOW DO WE THEN -- HOW DO WE THEN GET, AS YOU SAID, WHITE PEOPLE TO SAY, IT'S NOT ABOUT I DON'T SEE COLOR.

I HAD A WRITER ON, A BLACK MAN WROTE A WONDERFUL BOOK LOOKING AT THIS.

HE SAID, NO, WE SHOULD SEE COLOR BUT WE SHOULD EMBRACE COLOR.

IT'S NOT SAYING COLOR DOESN'T EXIST.

OF COURSE IT DOES T. HOW THEN, AND YOU TALK ABOUT THIS IN YOUR BOOK, WHAT THEN SHOULD WHITE PEOPLE, LIBERALS OR CONSERVATIVES, BE DOING NOW TO HELP AND TO SOMEHOW ALLEVIATE THIS WHITE FEAR THAT YOU TALK ABOUT?

SO WE MENTIONED WHITE PRIVILEGE MART.

I THINK THAT'S PART OF IT.

PARTICIPATE OF THE PROBLEM WITH WHITE PRIVILEGE, WHEN WE HEAR THAT PHRASE WE ACTUALLY THINK RICH PEOPLE.

PRIVILEGE.

SOMEBODY WHO WAS MIDDLE CLASS, SOMEBODY WHO WAS POOR, I'M A POOR WHITE GUY.

I DON'T HAVE PRIVILEGE.

ACTUALLY, YOU DO, BECAUSE YOU GET THE BENEFITS OF ACTUALLY WALKING THROUGH STORES AND DRIVING DOWN STREETS AND YOU DON'T AUTOMATICALLY ARE A SUSPECT.

WE SEE THE VIDEOS ALL THE TIME OF WHITE FOLKS LOSE THEIR MINDS ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AND OFFICER IS LIKE, CALM DOWN, CALM DOWN THAT DAMN SURE DON'T HAVE TO BLACK PEOPLE.

THEY WALK UP WITH THE GUN UNBUCKLED AND ALMOST READY TO PULL OUT.

THAT'S A PERFECT EXAMPLE.

WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN IS -- AND THIS IS WHERE THE STRUGGLE IN THIS COUNTRY, ALL THESE WHITE AMERICANS -- I AM NOT -- I AM NOT GOING TO SEE MY KID TO BE RAISED AND TAUGHT THAT THEY ARE OPPRESSOR.

FIRST OF ALL, NO ONE IS TEACHING THAT YOUR CHILD IS AN OPPRESSOR.

BUT YOU DO HAVE TO SAY WE HAVE TO LOOK AT AMERICA AND TAKE THE ROSE COLORED GLASSES OFF.

WHAT WE HAVE ALWAYS DONE IN THIS COUNTRY, AMERICA IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

GOD FAVORS US MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE, AND IT'S THE FLAG AND THE APPLE PIE AND WE'RE PERFECT AND WE ARE REDEEMING.

EVERYONE WANTS TO COME HERE.

THAT'S THE STORY WE'VE ALWAYS TOLD.

BUT WE HAVEN'T TROUPELY TOLD AMERICA ABOUT THE BLACK SOLDIERS WHO WERE LYNCHED IN THEIR UNIFORMS.

WE HAVEN'T NEARLY DEALT WITH THE BLACK SOLDIERS COMING BACK FROM WORLD WAR II WHO, WHEN THEY ARRIVED IN THE DEPOTS, FIERCE BATTLES AND FIGHTS WITH WHITE SOLDIERS.

WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT -- AGAIN, I WILL USE BLACK SOLDIERS AGAIN -- WHO DIDN'T BENEFIT FROM THE GI BILL, YET WHITE AMERICA WAS BUILT ECONOMICALLY THROUGH THE GI BILL, WHICH WAS CALLED THE GREATEST AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PLAN EVER.

WE'VE GOT TO OWN THAT.

WE'VE GOT TO STOP RUNNING FROM OUR HISTORY.

THE FIERCE REACTION OF THE 1619 PROJECT IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE.

THE WHOLE UPROAR BECAUSE WHAT IT ALL OF A SUDDEN DOES IS UNSETTLING WHEN PEOPLE, THEIR FOUNDATION HAS NOW BEEN SHAKEN.

I WOULD DARE TELL THEM, FINE, YOU DON'T WANT TO READ 'THE 1619 PROJECT.'

READ JACKIE ROBINSON'S BOOK 'I NEVER HAD IT MADE.'

AND WHY HE DIDN'T SALUTE THE FLAG AND RECITE THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, THEN YOU MIGHT UNDERSTAND COLIN KAEPERNICK.

THE REACTION TO KAEPERNICK, THAT WHOLE REACTION IS BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN CONDITIONED, NO, WE ARE TO UPHOLD AND EXALT POLICE OFFICERS, YEAH, BUT, IF YOU LOOK AT EVERY MAJOR RACE RIOT THAT HAPPENED IN AMERICA, IT WAS PRECEDED BY POLICE ABUSE.

SO YOU WANT ME TO EXALT COPS WHEN IN MY COMMUNITY THAT'S NOT HOW I'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH THEM.

AND SOAP THE CHALLENGE MUST BE FOR INDIVIDUALS TO STEP BACK AND SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, MAYBE HOW I'VE BEEN RAISED, HOW I'VE BEEN TAUGHT HAS NOT BEEN THE MOST PERFECT WAY.

WHAT DIDN'T I LEARN?

TOM HANKS' REACTION TO THE TULSA RACE RIOT 1921 WAS ON POINT.

HE WAS LIKE, WHY DIDN'T I KNOW ABOUT THIS?

RIGHT, RIGHT.

AND THAT'S THE PIECE.

TIM MADIGAN, WE USED TO WORK TOGETHER, AND TIM SAID, ROLAND, I USED TO SIT HERE.

I NEVER UNDERSTOOD O.J., PEOPLE'S REACTION TO ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS.

IT WASN'T UNTIL I STARTED DOING RESEARCH ON TULSA.

AND I'M READING THESE STORIES AND ALL BLACK PEOPLE ON THEIR KNEES IN THEIR HOMES PRAYING, HE SAID, AND GUNS PUT TO THE BACK OF THEIR HEADS AND THEIR BRAINS HAVE BEEN BLOWN OUT.

HE SAID THEN IT HIT ME.

HE SAID, NOW I GET IT.

NOW I SEE IT.

SO WHAT HAPPENED?

TIM'S EYES BEGAN TO BE OPENED TO THE PANORAMIC VIEW OF AMERICA.

THIS IS THE VIEW AMERICANS HAVE WIDELY RECEIVED.

WE HAVE HAD TO EXPERIENCE THIS ONE.

NOW WE HAVE A PANORAMIC VIEW.

IT'S DIFFERENT.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HATE AMERICA.

IT DOESN'T MEAN WE DESPISE IT.

WHAT IT MEANS IS WE'RE HONEST ABOUT OUR HISTORY AND HOW WE GOT HERE.

YOU ALSO MENTIONED -- I HAVE ABOUT FIVE MINUTES LEFT HERE.

A COUPLE THINGS I WANT TO GET IN.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE FACT YOUR BOOK IS ALSO A CALL TO ACTION FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR.

YES.

HOW SO?

YES.

BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN SOUTH AFRICA, THE REASON THEY ARE STILL STRUGGLING IS BECAUSE -- AND WHEN I INTERVIEWED WINNIE MANDELA, IT WAS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE -- ALL THOSE YOUNG KIDS FIGHTING APARTHEID WEREN'T GOING TO SCHOOL.

THEY WERE OUT IN THE STREETS FIGHTING.

SO YOU NOW HAVE AN ADULT POPULATION THAT'S ILLITERATE.

AND YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE BLACKS POLITICALLY ARE IN POWER, THE WHITES HOLD THE ECONOMIC LEVERS OF THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE TO BE IN POSITION FOR THE SHIFT, FOR THE CHANGE, THE DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFT, AND THAT IS MAXIMIZING OUR VOTING POWER, MAXIMIZING THE ISSUE OF EDUCATION, ENSURING THAT WE ARE FULLY PREPARED FOR THAT.

WHEN IT COMES TO LEVERAGING OUR BUSINESSES, USING OUR POWER RIGHT NOW TO DEMAND MORE -- I'M PART OF AN INITIATIVE TO DEMAND MORE.

THE ADVERTISING INDUSTRY SPENDS $200 BILLION ADVERTISING BLACK OWNED MEDIA.

WE GET 0.5%. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SPENDS $560 BILLION A YEAR ON CONTRACTS AFTER AMERICANS GET 1.67% OF THOSE CONTRACTS.

AND SO WHAT I AM SAYING IS WE MUST BE FORTIFYING OURSELVES, PREPARING OURSELVES FOR THAT DAY BECAUSE WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO SEE IS IN 2043 WE ACTUALLY ARE IN A WORSE SITUATION ECONOMICALLY, EDUCATIONALLY, HEALTH WISE THAN WE ARE IN 2022.

THAT'S WHAT I AM ARGUING FOR THAT WE MUST DO AND WHAT I'M ARGUING FOR WHITE AMERICA IS TO CONFRONT THE ISSUES, TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH ONE ANOTHER AND TO UNDERSTAND, BECAUSE PAT BUCHANAN WROTE THIS MORE THAN 30 YEARS AGO, THE BASIS OF WHITE FEAR, HE SAID OUR FEAR IS THAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO TO US WHAT WE DID TO THEM.

AND IN THE BOOK WHERE MITCH LANDREW TALKED ABOUT WHITE AMERICA, HE SAID, GUESS WHAT, I'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME AROUND BLACK PEOPLE.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO TO US WHAT WE DID TO THEM.

JACK, THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE OVERRIDING FEAR SINCE RECONSTRUCTION AND SLAVERY AND JIM CROW.

ARE THEY GOING TO DO TO US WHAT WE DID TO THEM?

THAT IS ALSO AN ISSUE.

ABOUT TWO MINUTES LEFT, ROLAND.

LET ME END WITH THE WORDS THAT YOU END YOUR BOOK WITH.

THE LAST SENTENCE YOU WRITE IS, WE'RE LIVING A LIE EVERY DAY IF WE DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH OF HOW WE ARE LIVING IN THIS COUNTRY.

THAT'S IT.

WE ABSOLUTELY ARE.

YOU CAN'T RUN AROUND HERE AND TALK ABOUT WE CARE ABOUT YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN, WE CARE ABOUT PEOPLE OF COLOR.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE INFANT MORTALITY RATE, YOU CAN'T SAY YOU'RE PRO-LIFE BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH BLACK WOMAN WHILE THEY'RE DYING AT MUCH HIGHER RATES WHILE THEY ARE BIRTHING CHILDREN.

YOU CAN'T SIT HERE AND SAY, WELL, THESE ARE JUST -- THESE ARE JUST A FEW BAD APPLE COPS WHEN IT'S STORY AFTER STORY AFTER STORY, YET BILLIONS ARE BEING SPENT ON ABUSE SETTLEMENTS.

WHERE ARE THE FISCAL CONSERVATIVES AGAIN?

PROGRESSIVES, I DEAL WITH THIS ON THE ADVERTISING SIDE, PROGRESSIVES, NO, NO, NO, WE'RE NICE WHITE LIBERALS.

WHY ARE YOU DENYING OPPORTUNITIES TO BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES?

WHY ARE YOU IGNORING PEOPLE?

NO, IT'S THE TRUTH, HAVING TO CONFRONT THAT AND I SHOULD NOT -- MY STRESS LEVEL SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO WHERE I HAVE TO SUE, I HAVE TO YELL, HOLLER, SCREAM, PROTEST IN ORDER TO MAKE CHANGE.

UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS THE HISTORY OF MY PEOPLE.

FREDERICK DOUGLASS SAID POWER CONCEDES NOTHING WITHOUT A DEMAND, NEVER HAS, NEVER WILL.

AND AGITATE, AGITATE, AGITATE.

UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS OUR REALITY.

AND SO WE MUST DEAL WITH TRUTH, NOT ALTERNATIVE FACTS, KELLYANNE CONWAY.

SIMES TRUTH IS PAINFUL.

SOMETIMES TRUTH HURTS.

BUT WHEN YOU NOW KNOW THE TRUTH YOU HAVE YOUR EYES OPEN AND DEAL WITH A PATH FORWARD.

AND THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO MOVE FORWARD BY ACKNOWLEDGING.

ONCE AGAIN THE BOOK IS TITLED 'WHITE FEAR: HOW THE BROWNING OF AMERICA IS MAKING WHITE FOLKS LOSE THEIR MINDS.'

ROLAND MARTIN, IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO TALK WITH YOU.

THERE'S SO MUCH MORE WE COULD TALK ABOUT HERE BUT PEOPLE SHOULD GET OUT THERE.

IT'S A COMPELLING, PROVOCATIVE, EVOCATIVE LOOK AT PROBLEMS BUT ALSO AT POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

ROLAND, IT WAS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

APPRECIATE IT.

YOU TAKE CARE NOW.

GET WELL.

> 'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND

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