“STARS AND SHADOWS: THE POLITICS OF INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIP FROM JEFFERSON TO OBAMA”

> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS.'

I'M JACK FORD.

FRIENDSHIP IS THE FOUNDATION OF SO MUCH GOOD IN OUR LIVES, BUT COULD IT BE A KEY TO OVERCOMING WHITE SUPREMACY AND BUILDING A BETTER FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY?

OUR NEXT GUEST, A FAMILIAR FACE HERE, MADE IT HIS MISSION TO ANALYZE TWO CENTURIES OF NOTE-WORTHY INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIPS THAT HAVE SERVED AS MODELS FOR ADVANCING RACIAL EQUITY AND EQUALITY.

FROM THOMAS JEFFERSON AND BENJAMIN BANNEKER, THE FIRST SYMBOL OF BLACK EXCELLENCE TO HE WILL ELLA FITZGERALD AND MARILYN MONROE, WE SEE HOW AMERICAN ICONS HELPED BUILD A BETTER MULTI-RACIAL DEMOCRACY.

IN HIS NEW BOOK 'STARS AND SHADOWS, THE POLITICS OF INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIP, FROM JEFFERSON TO OBAMA.'

FOR MORE ON THE BOOK AND HOW THE PAST CAN HELP SHAPE A BETTER FUTURE FOR US, IT'S OUR PLEASURE TO WELCOME BACK PROFESSOR AMBAR.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

GREAT TO SEE YOU, JACK.

ALWAYS GOOD TO BE ON 'METROFOCUS.'

LET'S START WITH THE QUESTION I ASK JUST ABOUT EVERY AUTHOR.

THAT IS, HOW AND WHY DID THIS BOOK COME ABOUT?

WELL, JACK, THE SHORT ANSWER IS THAT I HAD BEEN WORKING ON A PROJECT RELATED TO A MAN HAND HIS PROFESSOR.

IT LED ME TO CONSIDER OTHER RELATIONSHIPS ACROSS THE RACIAL LINE THAT MATTERED IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

THE DEEPER SIGNIFICANCE OF WHY I BEGAN THIS PROJECT HAD TO DO WITH WHERE I WAS IN MY OWN LIFE AND I THINK WHERE THE COUNTRY WAS IN TERMS OF ITS DIVISIONS AND LACK OF CONNECTIVITY AND SEEKING A WAY TO MARRY THE PERSONAL WITH THE POLITICAL THAT MIGHT ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA MIGHT WORK.

I GOTTA TELL YOU, I READ THE BOOK.

IT WAS MARVELLOUS.

IT WAS A WONDERFUL CONFLUENCE OF INFORMATION.

EACH PAGE I FOUND MYSELF -- I WAS A HISTORY MAJOR.

I TEACH AT YALE ABOUT TRIALS INTERWOVEN INTO HISTORY.

SO MANY OF THE STORIES I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT.

I FOUND THEM BOTH INCREDIBLY INFORMATIVE AND INCREDIBLY ENTERTAINING.

I WANT TO GET THAT OUT THERE FOR YOU.

YOU SUCCEEDED MAGNIFICENTLY IN WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO.

LET ME FOCUS A LITTLE BIT ON SOME OF THE STORIES.

YOU TAKE TEN RELATIONSHIPS HERE IN THIS BOOK.

STRETCHING OUT FROM THOMAS JEFFERSON AND ENDING WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA, THEN VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN.

LET ME ASK TO YOU SHINE A LIGHT ON A COUPLE OF THE STORIES, WHY YOU FELT THEY WERE IMPORTANT.

TO YOU AND TO US AS READERS.

LET'S START WHERE YOU START, AND THAT IS AS I MENTIONED, THOMAS JEFFERSON AND BENJAMIN BANNEKER.

TELL US WHY THAT WAS IMPORTANT, WHY YOU WANTED TO INCLUDE THAT RELATIONSHIP HERE.

HERE IS THOMAS JEFFERSON REALLY IN 1791 IS SECRETARY OF STATE, WELL-KNOWN AS THE AUTHOR OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

SOMEONE WHO HIRES BENJAMIN BANNEKER TO SERVE AS A SURVEYOR ON THE TEAM OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO OUTLINE WHAT WOULD BECOME THE BOUNDARIES OF WASHINGTON, D.C.

HE DEVELOPS THIS ADMIRATION FOR BANNEKER.

BANNEKER APPRECIATES THAT EFFORT ON JEFFERSON'S PART TO RECOGNIZE HIM.

BANNEKER WRITES TO JEFFERSON LATER ON RETURNING HOME FROM HIS SURVEYING EFFORTS IN WASHINGTON TO ADMONISH JEFFERSON ABOUT SLAVERY.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE THIS IS REALLY THE FIRST MOMENT IN WHICH AN AFRICAN AMERICAN REALLY LOCKS INTELLECTUAL ARMS, IF YOU WILL, WITH A FOUNDER OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC.

THERE'S A MOMENT IN THE EXCHANGE OF LETTERS WHERE NOT ONLY BANNEKER CHALLENGES JEFFERSON ON SLAVERY, BUT REALLY CALLS HIM TO TASK FOR BEING A HYPOCRITE FOR SOMEONE WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER, FRANKLY.

SOMEONE WHO SIGNED THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND DOES NOTHING TO FORWARD HUMAN PROGRESS ALONG THE LINES OF LIBERTY.

JEFFERSON WRITES BACK AND SAYS TO BANNEKER, YOU KNOW, I MARVEL AT YOUR TALENT.

I WISH IN SO MANY WORDS THERE WERE MORE NEGROS LIKE YOU, ET CETERA.

HE GOES AND FORWARDS BANNEKER'S ALMANAC TO FRANCE, TO THE ACADEMY OF SCIENCES AND LAUDE BANNEKER.

WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THIS RELATIONSHIP REALLY CAN'T GO MUCH FURTHER.

I THINK IT'S IN LARGE PART BECAUSE JEFFERSON IS UNWILLING TO TAKE THE POLITICAL RISKS WHICH WOULD COME WITH TRULY MAKING BANNEKER ONE OF HIS BRETHREN AS HE DESCRIBES IN THE LETTER.

IT'S THIS FIRST MOMENT, THIS FIRST FIT AND START IN AMERICAN NATIONAL POLITICS, WHERE THE POSSIBILITIES OF INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIP ARE BEING POTENTIALLY DEMONSTRATED TO THE NATION AND THEN REALLY DRAWN BACK IN A WAY THAT I THINK SIGNIFIES THAT THE COUNTRY IS NOT PREPARED OR NOT WILLING TO BE PREPARED TO GO FURTHER WITH RESPECT TO EXPANDING THE BOUNDARIES OF RACIAL JUSTICE.

SO MUCH OF THIS RELATIONSHIP IS STARTLING IN MANY WAYS, INCLUDING THE FACT THAT JEFFERSON WROTE BACK TO HIM, WITHIN DAYS.

AGAIN, AS YOU SAID, IT'S NOT A RELATIONSHIP THAT LASTED.

BUT STILL, IT DID, AS I SAID, SHINE A LIGHT ON WHAT WAS GOING ON.

SPEAKING OF RELATIONSHIPS -- ONCES THAT WERE MORE GENUINE AND LASTED MORE, YOU ALSO WRITE ABOUT FREDERICK DOUGLAS AND -- BANNEKER, MAYBE THE FIRST MAN CELEBRATED FOR HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

DOUGLAS PERHAPS THE MOST FAMOUS BLACK MAN IN THE WORLD AT THE TIME.

A RELATIONSHIP WITH ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?

IT CAME ABOUT OUT OF ANGER.

SOMETIMES FRIENDSHIPS COME FROM HONEST PLACES THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE MOST PLEASANT.

DOUGLAS MEETS WITH LINCOLN IN 1863.

HE WANTS TO CALL LINCOLN TO TASK ON THE SUBJECT OF BLACK PAY.

BLACK SOLDIERS ARE PAID $3 FEWER THAN WHITE SOLDIERS.

HE ADMONISHES LINCOLN ABOUT THIS.

HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE.

LINCOLN PUSHES BACK AND HE ENGAGES IN AN HONEST EXCHANGE WITH DOUGLAS ABOUT HIS POSITION.

IN OTHER WORDS, FRIENDSHIP REQUIRES HONESTY.

IT REQUIRES TRUTH TELLING.

PEOPLE MAY DISAGREE AND REMAIN DISAGREEING FOR SOME TIME.

BUT IN THAT HONEST EXCHANGE COMES SOMETHING ELSE.

DOUGLAS LEAVES THE FIRST MEETING SAYING ABOUT LINCOLN, I FELT LIKE A MAN IN THERE.

I NEVER FELT CONSCIOUS OF MY RACE.

I FELT BIG IN THERE.

I WAS ACKNOWLEDGED FOR WHO I AM.

I WAS NEVER MADE CONSCIOUS THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING BETWEEN US IN TERMS OF RACIAL DISTINCTIVENESS.

THAT'S IMPORTANT.

BY THE TIME LINCOLN MEET DOUGLAS FOR THE SECOND TIME, THERE'S GREATER ADMIRATION AND LINCOLN IS ASKING DOUGLAS TO ASSIST HIM WITH BRINGING OUT OF SLAVERY AFRICAN AMERICANS IN THE SOUTH WHO ARE ON PLANTATIONS, ENSLAVED, TO HELP THEM ESCAPE TO UNION LIVES, TO THE UNION ARMY LIVES TO BE FREE AND STRIKE A DAGGER BLOW TO THE HEART OF THE CONFEDERACY.

YOU KNOW, LOOK, THIS IS A CRAZY PLAN.

BUT DOUGLAS CONSIDERS IT.

IT NEVER COMES TO PASS FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.

BY THE THIRD MEETING AT THE SECOND INAUGURAL, LINCOLN DELIVERS IN MARCH OF 1865, DOUGLAS MEETS LINCOLN IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND HE TAKES SOME DOING TO GET IN THERE.

HE IS NOT ALLOWED IN.

HE IS TOLD HE IS NOT ALLOWED ADMISSION TO COLORED CITIZENS.

DOUGLAS SAYS THAT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN DELIVERED BY LINCOLN.

LINCOLN CALLS OUT TO DOUGLAS.

HE SAYS, IS THERE MY FRIEND DOUGLAS.

POWERFUL AND SIGNIFICANT MOMENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY, BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT IS NOW SORT OF ARTICULATING WITH THAT NEW BIRTH OF FREEDOM THAT HE SUGGESTED HAD TO HAPPEN AT GETTYSBURG WOULD LOOK LIKE.

IT WOULD INVOLVE MORE THAN JUST POLITICAL FREEDOM.

IT WOULD INVOLVE FRIENDSHIP.

THE RELATIONSHIPS WE TALKED ABOUT, SOME OF THE OTHERS IN THE BOOK, ARE ALL FOCUSED ON, TO SOME EXTENT POLITICS.

THERE'S OTHERS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY POLITICAL BUT HAD AN IMPACT.

I THINK ONE OF THE MORE FASCINATING ONES, ELLA FITZGERALD AND MARILYN MONROE.

AN URBAN LEGEND THAT YOU DIG DEEPER INTO.

GIVE US A QUICK SENSE OF WHAT THAT IS ABOUT.

THE URBAN LEGEND AND WHAT SOCIAL MEDIA OFTEN GETS WRONG ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP IS THAT MARILYN MONROE SAVED THE CAREER OF ELLA FITZGERALD BY TELLING THE OWNER AT THE MACOMBO CLAIM IN LOS ANGELES IN HOLLYWOOD THAT SHE, MARILYN MONROE, WOULD NOT EVER GRACE THE PRESENCE OF THAT CLUB AGAIN UNLESS THEY ALLOWED ELLA FITZGERALD TO SING, BECAUSE THEY HAD A RACIAL BAN AGAINST BLACK ARTISTS.

THAT'S NOT QUITE WHAT HAPPENED.

WHAT REALLY HAPPENS IS THAT FITZGERALD IS BLACKBALLED, IF YOU WILL, FROM ATTENDING AND PARTICIPATING AS A SINGER.

BUT IT'S BECAUSE SHE'S NOT SEXUALIZED ENOUGH.

SHE'S NOT THE KIND OF SHOW GIRL PRESENCE THAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR.

BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN BLACK SINGERS THERE.

NEVERTHELESS, MARILYN MONROE DOES REACH OUT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, I WILL USE ALL OF MY POWER TO SUPPORT YOU WITH MY HOLLYWOOD FRIENDS AND ARTISTS IF YOU GRANT HER ADMISSION AND LET HER SING.

THAT DOES HAPPEN.

WE GET SOME OF IT WRONG, BUT ULTIMATELY, MARILYN MONROE GETS IT RIGHT.

SHE GETS IT RIGHT FOR DIFFERENT REASONS THAN THE STORY WE TELL OURSELVES ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIP, BUT SHE GETS IT RIGHT, NONETHELESS.

I THINK IT SUGGESTS THE FACT THAT SHE, HERSELF, WAS A LOT DEEPER AND MORE SIGNIFICANT A PERSONALITY THAN GIVEN CREDIT FOR BEING GIVEN HOW SHE'S BEEN SO, YOU KNOW, REDUCED TO HER LOOKS OVER THE DECADES.

WE WRESTLE WITH, WHAT CAN WE DO?

ARE THERE THINGS WE CAN DO?

ELSE IN OUR CURRENT ENVIRONMENT, WHICH IS SO FRAUGHT WITH TENSION AND EVEN HOSTILITY.

YOU TALK IN THE BOOK ABOUT THE NOTION THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A COMMAND FOR US TO TALK TO STRANGERS.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

I TAKE THAT TERM FROM DANIELLE I'LL ALLEN'S BOOK.

TALKING TO STRANGERS IS THE BLOCKING AND TACKLING OF DEMOCRACY.

WHEN YOUR INSTITUTIONS ARE FAILING, WHEN SO MUCH IS GOING WRONG IN A MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY, YOU GOTTA BEGIN TO ASK THE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS.

WHAT IS AT THE HEART OF WHO WE ARE?

AT THE HEART IS IN THE IDEA OF CITIZENSHIP TIED TO FRATERNITY, THE FRENCH REVOLUTIONARIES THOUGHT OF IT, BROTHERHOOD, SISTERHOOD, WHO WE ARE AS HUMAN BEINGS, SOMETHING THAT IS DEEPER THAN JUST INSTITUTIONS.

I JUST TAUGHT LINCOLN'S SECOND INAUGURAL ADDRESS.

THE LAST WORDS OF THAT ADDRESS ARE, WITH MALICE TOWARD NONE.

THAT'S A GOOD START.

WITH MALICE TOWARD NONE.

DON'T HATE.

BUT LINCOLN GOES FURTHER.

WITH CHARITY FOR ALL.

MALICE TOWARD NONE IS PASSIVE.

CHARITY FOR ALL IS SUGGESTIVE OF SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES OUR ENERGIES.

THAT'S WHAT FRIENDSHIP DOES.

IT REQUIRES OUR FOCUS AND ENERGIES TO DIRECT OURSELVES TOWARDS A BETTER FUTURE.

LINCOLN'S LAST WORDS.

THAT WILL HAVE TO BE OUR LAST WORDS.

PROFESSOR, 'STARS AND SHADOWS, POLITICS OF INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIP FROM JEFFERSON TO OBAMA.'

IT'S A MARVELLOUS READ.

ALWAYS GOOD TO TALK WITH YOU.

YOU TAKE CARE.

LIKEWISE, JACK.

THANK YOU.