MetroFocus: March 2, 2022

> TONIGHT, AS THE WAR IN UKRAINE INTENSIFIES, WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN'S STATE OF THE UNION COULD MEAN FOR THE FIGHT OVERSEAS AND LIFE BACK HOME, FROM INFLATION TO COMBATTING CRIME.

'METROFOCUS' STARTS RIGHT NOW.

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> THIS IS 'METROFOCUS,' WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

> 'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY --

> SIX DAYS AGO, RUSSIA'S VLADIMIR PUTIN SOUGHT TO SHAKE THE VERY FOUNDATIONS OF THE FREE WORLD, THINKING HE COULD MAKE IT BEND TO HIS MENACING WAYS.

BUT HE BADLY MISCALCULATED.

HE THOUGHT HE COULD ROLL INTO UKRAINE AND THE WORLD WOULD ROLL OVER.

INSTEAD, HE WAS MET WITH A WALL OF STRENGTH HE NEVER ANTICIPATED OR IMAGINED.

HE MET THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.

> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS,' I AM JACK FORD.

TONIGHT, AS RUSSIA PUSHES TO SEIZE KEY CITIES IN UKRAINE, NEW YORKERS ARE UNPACKING PRESIDENT BIDEN'S STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS.

AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE WAR OVERSEAS AND LIFE BACK HOME.

AS YOU HEARD, THE PRESIDENT IS VOWING TO CHECK RUSSIAN AGGRESSION.

HE ALSO SAID INFLATION AND THE ECONOMY, TOP PRIORITIES FOR HIM.

AND DISCUSSED THE FADING YET STILL TROUBLESOME PANDEMIC.

NEW YORK LEADERS ARE PRAISING THE PRESIDENT FOR ALSO ACKNOWLEDGING THE FALLEN NYPD DETECTIVES KILLED IN JANUARY'S HARLEM SHOOTING AMBUSH.

THAT PRECEDED ONE OF THE BIGGEST OVATIONS OF THE NIGHT, A BIPARTISAN OVATION, AS THE PRESIDENT SPOKE OUT AGAINST WHAT HE SAID WAS DEFUNDING THE POLICE.

REPUBLICANS HAVE RESPONDED BY HAMMERING THE PRESIDENT'S LEADERSHIP ON THE WORLD STAGE AND CRITICIZING DEMOCRATS OVER THE RISE IN VIOLENT CRIME.

SO, FOR MUCH MORE ON WHAT'S AHEAD AND WHAT THIS ALL MEANS TO US, WE WANT TO WELCOME TONIGHT'S PANEL OF EXPERTS.

LET ME BRING THEM IN HERE THEN TO JOIN OUR CONVERSATION.

AND INTRODUCE THEM ALSO.

WE ARE PLEASED TONIGHT TO BE JOINED BY KIMBERLY PEELER-ALLEN, WHO IS A VISITING PRACTITIONER AT THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN WOMEN IN POLITICS AT RUTGERS UNIVERSITY.

TOM DOHERTY, PARTNER AT MERCURY, THE GLOBAL PUBLIC STRATEGY FIRM.

HE SERVED AS A SENIOR ADVISER TO FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR GEORGE PATAKI.

AND ELISE GIULIANO, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, ALSO PROGRAM DIRECTOR FOR U.S./RUSSIAN RELATIONS AT THE SCHOOL'S HARRIMAN INS INSTITUTE.

WE HAVE A LOT TO TALK ABOUT HERE ABOUT WHAT WENT ON LAST NIGHT.

LET ME START BY SETTING THE STAGE FOR OUR CONVERSATION, AND BY DOING THAT, I WANT TO ASK ALL THREE OF YOU THE SAME QUESTION.

JUST ASK YOU FOR A SHORT SYNOPSIS ANSWER, IF YOU WILL.

GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE U.S. AND THE WORLD, GIVEN THE -- THE PRESIDENT'S POLL NUMBERS, FOR WHATEVER THEY ARE WORTH, GIVEN HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH CONGRESS, COMING INTO THE STATE OF THE UNION LAST NIGHT, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT NEEDED TO DO?

AND THEN WE'LL GET TO THAT, AFTER THAT, WHAT HE ACTUALLY DID.

LET'S LOOK FIRST AT WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO, AND PROFESSOR, LET ME START WITH YOU, FIRST, BECAUSE YOUR EXPERTISE IS THE UKRAINE AND WHAT'S GOING ON IN THAT AREA, YOU'VE BEEN THERE.

SO, JUST LOOKING FORWARD, WHAT DO YOU THINK HE NEEDED TO DO?

I THINK THE PRESIDENT NEEDED TO EXPLAIN TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHY WHAT IS UNFOLDING IN UKRAINE IS THE CENTRAL DRAMA OF OUR TIME AND WHAT STAKE AMERICA HAS IN THE OUTCOME.

WHY AMERICA NEEDS TO COUNTER RUSSIAN AGGRESSION AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

AND REALLY HOW UNMOTIVATED RUSSIA'S ATTACK ON UKRAINE HAS BEEN.

AND I THINK HE DID THAT, BY BEGINNING THE SPEECH.

THAT'S GOOD.

I'M GOING TO COME BACK IN A SECOND.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

KIMBERLY, HOW ABOUT YOU?

WHAT DID YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT NEEDED TO DO?

I THINK THE PRESIDENT NEEDED TO COME IN AND TALK ABOUT HIS SUCCESSES, BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN HIS POLL NUMBERS BE, YOU KNOW, HISTORICALLY LOW GOING INTO A FIRST STATE OF THE UNION AND HE NEEDED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HE'S DONE AND GIVE AMERICANS A VISION FOR THE FUTURE THAT THEY COULD GRASP ONTO, TO HOLD ON NOT JUST THROUGH THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS, BUT FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS AND THE REST OF HIS TERM.

TOM, HOW ABOUT IT?

WELL, CLEARLY, HE NEEDED TO EXPLAIN THE UKRAINIAN SITUATION, BECAUSE IT'S FRONT PAGE OF EVERY NEWSPAPER, BUT WHAT HE ALSO NEEDED TO DO WAS TO SPEAK ABOUT THE AMERICAN POCKETBOOK.

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH INFLATION, WHY DO WE HAVE INFLATION AS IT IS, AND HOW THAT'S EFFECTING EVERY DAY AMERICANS.

SO, PROFESSOR, LET'S TALK ABOUT UKRAINE.

THE PRESIDENT LED OFF HIS ADDRESS, IT WASN'T WHAT HIS PLAN WAS A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, BUT CLEARLY, THE WORLD HAS CHANGED.

SO, HE LED OFF HIS ADDRESS TALKING ABOUT UKRAINE.

AND YOU HAD MENTIONED THE NEED TO GET THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS IN OUR BEST INTEREST TO NOT JUST BE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE POLLS SHOW A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED, BE TO REALLY BE INVESTED IN SOME SORT OF RESOLUTION.

DO YOU THINK HE DID THAT?

I THINK HE DID.

I THINK HE EXPLAINED BY FOREGROUNDING AND HAVE THE UKRAINIAN AMBASSADOR THERE, KIND OF HUMANIZED THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE TO THE PUBLIC.

AND I THINK HE WAS ABLE TO EXPLAIN WHY WE NEED TO STOP AND COUNTER RUSSIA'S AGGRESSION AND I ALSO THOUGHT HE EXPLAINED IN THE LEADUP TO THE CONFLICT HOW HIS DIPLOMACY WAS QUITE EFFECTIVE AND HOW HIS -- THE STRATEGY OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IN REVEALING THE INTELLIGENCE THAT THEY HAD, HOW THAT HELPED TO COUNTER OR SLOW DOWN OR DELAY THE -- RUSSIA'S ATTACK ON UKRAINE.

WHY DO YOU THINK -- LOOKING BACK IN HISTORY, BACK IN 2014, THAT SOMETHING SIMILAR WAS HAPPENING WITH RUSSIA AND CRIMEA.

AND LOOKING BACK ON IT, I DON'T RECALL THERE BEING AS MUCH TURMOIL IN THE WORLD AND AS MUCH CONCERN AROUND THE WORLD ABOUT THAT.

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS DIFFERENT?

RIGHT, WELL, IN 2014, THE CRISIS IN UKRAINE BEGAN ACTUALLY IN 2013, SO, WHEN IT STARTED LOOKING LIKE A DOMESTIC SITUATION AND THEN MORPHED INTO SOMETHING QUITE LARGER, WHERE RUSSIA ANNEXED CRIMEA AND FUNDED AND GOT INVOLVED IN BEGINNING A WAR IN THE EASTERN PART OF UKRAINE, IN DONBAS.

AND THAT WAR WAS HORRIFIC AND HAS ACTUALLY -- HASN'T STOPPED FOR THE PAST EIGHT YEARS.

AND HAS LED TO 13,000 UKRAINIANS DEAD, INCLUDING CIVILIANS.

THAT'S HORRIFIC.

IT ACTUALLY HASN'T RECEIVED ENOUGH ATTENTION, IT DIDN'T AT THE TIME, AND THE REASON FOR THAT PARTLY IS IT WAS RATHER SURPRISING BEHAVIOR.

PUTIN HAD BEEN RATHER PRAGMATIC AND NOT AS AGGRESSIVE IN -- IN GOING AFTER STATES IN THE REGION, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE WAR IN GEORGIA IN 2008, AND I THINK THAT THE U.S. WAS JUST TAKEN BY SURPRISE, WASN'T READY TO COUNTER THE DISINFORMATION COMING OUT OF RUSSIA, AND THAT WAS NOT THE CASE THIS TIME.

WE -- WE WERE READY AND READY WITH A MESSAGE AND HAVE BEEN VERY ACTIVELY COUNTERING RUSSIAN DISINFORMATION.

A COUPLE OTHER QUESTIONS TO YOU AND THEN TOM AND KIMBERLY, WE'LL BRING YOU IN ON THIS.

THIS IS THE PROFESSOR'S AREA OF STUDY.

HAVE YOU BEEN SURPRISED AND WERE YOU AT ALL SURPRISED LAST NIGHT TO HEAR THE PRESIDENT SAY, THERE WILL BE NO U.S. BOOTS ON THE GR GROUND.

WE ARE NOT SENDING U.S. FORCES IN.

HE SAID, WE WILL, HOWEVER, WITH REGARD TO OUR NATO ALLIES, WE WILL FOLLOW OUR OBLIGATIONS TO DEFEND OUR NATO ALLIES, IF THIS MIGHT EXPAND TO THAT AREA, WERE YOU SURPRISED BY THAT?

WELL, I'M NOT SURPRISED THAT THE U.S. IS NOT COMMITTING TROOPS, BECAUSE UKRAINE IS NOT A MEMBER OF NATO AND RUSSIA HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS, RIGHT?

SO WE DON'T WANT TO WILLFULLY GET INTO A SITUATION WITH RUSSIA AND SOME KIND OF MISTAKE COULD LEAD TO AN EXCHANGE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS, GOD FORBID.

SO, I'M NOT SURPRISED BY THAT, BUT I THINK WHAT HE'S SAYING AND WHAT WE HAVE TO REALIZE IS THAT WE'RE IN A NEW SITUATION INTERNATIONALLY.

ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS SITUATIONS THAT WE'VE BEEN IN, CERTAINLY SINCE THE END OF THE POST-COLD WAR AND POSSIBLY EVEN BEFORE THAT, BECAUSE WE SEEM TO HAVE A PUTIN WHO IS MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE, PEOPLE ARE CALLING HIM UNHINGED AND THERE COULD BE A -- WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS NEXT MOVE IS.

HE COULD MOVE INTO A NATO COUNTRY, IT'S POSSIBLE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT LIKELY, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE.

AND THERE COULD BE, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS DURING TIMES OF WAR, WHERE THERE'S A MISCOMMUNICATION, MISPERCEPTION OR A MISSILE GOES ASTRAY AND HITS A NATO COUNTRY, ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN THAT COULD LEAD TO A NATO RESPONSE AND THEN WE'RE ON NEW AND DANGEROUS TERRITORY, SO, I THINK HE'S PREPARING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND HOW DANGEROUS THIS SITUATION IS, HOW JUST REALLY SHOCKING RUSSIAN BEHAVIOR IS AND THAT WE NEED TO -- WE NEED TO STAND WITH EUROPE AND STAND WITH NATO, HONOR OUR COMMITMENTS TO NATO AND WE'RE READY TO COUNTER RUSSIAN AGGRESSION AND WE'RE ABLE TO COUNTER, BECAUSE THE MILITARY POWER OF NATO IS FAR BEYOND THAT OF RUSSIA.

I WOULD IMAGINE IF I'M ADVISING THE PRESIDENT, IF I'M A MILL TOUR ADVISER OR SOMEBODY THAT IS LOOKING AT THIS AREA, HAS THE EXPERTISE THAT YOU HAVE, THE QUESTION I WOULD BE ASKING IS, GET INTO PUTIN'S MIND FOR ME.

WHAT IS HE DOING, AND MORE IMPORTANT, WHY?

AGAIN, THE QUESTION I ASKED BEFORE, YOU'VE STUDIED HIM, YOU HAVE STUDIED THIS REGION AND THE RELATIONSHIPS.

IS THIS EXTRAORDINARY, HIS CONDUCT, OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN COMING?

WELL, PROBABLY BOTH.

GETTING INTO HIS MIND THAT ANY OF US WANT TO GO RIGHT NOW.

FORMERLY, WE THOUGHT OF HIM AS PRAGMATIC AND ESSENTIALLY A STATIST, IE, HE PUTS THE RUSSIAN STATE FIRST, SO, HE WANTS TO ALWAYS INCREASE RUSSIA'S STATE POWER.

AND THAT LED HIM TO A CERTAIN DEGREE OF CAUTIOUSNESS.

BUT NOW, IT DOES SEEM LIKE -- AND ALL THE SPECIALISTS ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH PUTIN, WE HAVE REPORTS FROM MACRON AND SCHOLZ OF GERMANY THAT MET WITH HIM, THAT HE SEEMS DIFFERENT.

HE'S BEEN VERY STRANGE DURING THE PANDEMIC.

HE'S ISOLATED HIMSELF.

HE'S BEEN VERY NERVOUS ABOUT CATCHING COVID.

THERE ARE EVEN RUMORS THAT HE'S NOT VACCINATED AND YOU CAN SEE FROM THE IMAGES OF THAT VERY LONG TABLE THAT HE HAS HIS CONCERNS ABOUT KEEPING PEOPLE PHYSICALLY AWAY FROM HIM.

AND THAT'S VERY, YOU KNOW, YES, WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING, BECAUSE OF 2014 AND THE WAR, SOME -- MANY PEOPLE DID SEE IT COMING, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE U.S. WAS NOT ABOUT TO COUNTER RUSSIA'S AGGRESSION IN THE REGION WHEN THAT COULD LEAD TO AN ARMED CONFLICT WITH NATO OR WITH THE U.S. AND, AGAIN, GOD FORBID, NUCLEAR -- A NUCLEAR CONFLICT, SO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN SEE BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY.

WE COULD HAVE -- WE COULD HAVE STOOD UP TO HIM, I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE, IN LET HAVE SPEKT, BUT SOME OF RUSSIA'S BEHAVIOR UP TO THIS POINT HAS SEEMED TO GO UP TO A CERTAIN POINT AND THEN PULL BACK.

BUT NOW, WHAT WE'RE FACING IS, AND I JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE THIS, BECAUSE IT'S A TRAGEDY, AND THE WORLD REALLY NEEDS TO NOTICE, IT'S A TRAGEDY THAT THEY SEEM TO BE GOING AFTER CIVILIANS AS MILITARY POLICY.

LET ME SHIFT OUR FOCUS.

WE COULD HAVE AN ENTIRE HOUR'S LONG CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS, BUT AS THE PRESIDENT DID, LET'S SHIFT OUR FOCUS HERE AND TOM AND KIMBERLY, LET ME GET YOU INTO THE CONVERSATION HERE ABOUT THIS.

WE KNOW FOR WHATEVER THE POLLS ARE WORTH THAT WE'RE BEING TOLD THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS CONCERNED ABOUT UKRAINE, BUT TOP PRIORITY, THE ECONOMY AND INFLATION.

SO, KIMBERLY, LET ME COME TO YOU FIRST.

DID YOU HEAR WHAT YOU THINK THE PUBLIC NEEDED TO HEAR -- LET'S START WITH THE NOTION OF THE ECONOMY, WHERE WE ARE WITH THE ECONOMY.

DID YOU HEAR THAT FROM THE PRESIDENT IN KIND OF A CONVINCING FASHION?

I WANTED TO HEAR MORE, TO BE HONEST.

I THOUGHT THAT HE DID ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, POCKETBOOK ISSUES AND DID, YOU KNOW, EXPRESS HIS UNDERSTANDING OF HARDSHIP, AS HE, YOU KNOW, OFTEN GOES BACK TO HIS ROOTS IN SCRANTON, PENNSYLVANIA, HE DID DRAW ON THAT AND, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT THE COST OF OIL AND, YOU KNOW, SAID THAT HE IS RELEASING BARRELS FROM THE STRATEGIC REVERSE -- RESERVE, AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THINGS ARE GOING TO COST MORE.

AND HE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT AND SAID, BUT WE'LL BE OKAY, WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS.

I THINK THAT WAS GREAT THAT HE ACKNOWLEDGED IT, BUT I THINK THERE WAS -- IT LACKED DETAIL THAT I THINK A LOT OF AMERICANS WERE REALLY LOOKING -- LOOKING TOWARDS TO REALLY BE ABLE TO SAY, OKAY, THIS IS -- THIS IS WHERE WE ARE, BUT THIS IS HOW WE'RE GOING TO GET OUT OF IT.

TOM, MUCH OF WHAT YOU DO FOCUSES ON THE NOTION OF CRAFTING MESSAGES, COMMUNICATING MESSAGES, AND I'M STRUCK OFTEN BY THE FACT THAT WE'VE SEEN THAT -- IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA, THE ECONOMY, AGAIN, AS THE PRESIDENT SAID, IN MANY ASPECTS IS DOING VERY WELL, BUT IT SEEMS THAT PEOPLE DON'T FEEL THAT.

NO.

THERE SEEMS TO BE A DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE NUMBERS AND THE PERSONAL BELIEFS OF THE CITIZENRY.

SO, WHAT DID HE HAVE TO DO TO GET THAT ACROSS AND DID HE DO IT?

YOU KNOW, I'M VERY INTERESTED IN WATCHING THE NEWS AFTERWARDS LAST NIGHT, TO GET A SENSE OF WHAT THE POLLING AFTER THE SHOW EXPRESSED, BECAUSE I HAD A PERSONAL VIEW, I LOVED THE FACT THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF UNIFYING ISSUES THAT HE BROUGHT UP, THAT YOU WOULD THINK THAT BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS COULD RALLY AROUND.

CERTAINLY OPENING WITH UKRAINE ACCOMPLISHED THAT, THE VAST MAJORITY STOOD TOGETHER ON THAT.

INFRASTRUCTURE, CLEARLY, IN A LOT OF WAYS, BIPARTISAN.

AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THE FOUR TH THINGS, THE OPIOID, THE MENTAL HEALTH, THE FUND THE POLICE WAS A CLEAR SHOT THERE, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE -- DOING POLITICS AND DOING CAMPAIGNS, THE MESSAGE NEEDS TO BE CONSISTENT EVERY SINGLE DAY.

AND THE PROBLEM THAT HE'S FACING RIGHT NOW IS THAT THE MESSAGE HAS BEEN INFLATION, INFLATION, INFLATION, ALL-TIME HIGH, NOT, JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, I'VE CREATED X AMOUNT OF JOBS, AND UNLESS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IT AND YOUR PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE TALKING ABOUT IT, HE'S DEALING WITH A SITUATION, JACK, THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BOUGHT INTO THIS NOTION THAT HE'S AN OLD, FEEBLE GUY.

IT'S KIND OF RIDICULOUS.

BUT THEY'VE BOUGHT INTO A PIECE OF THAT.

WHY?

BECAUSE OF THE DIVISION THAT WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

AND SO, I WOULD SAY THAT WE'VE NEVER RUN A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN, A NATIONWIDE POLITICAL CAMPAIGN, AT LEAST IN MY LIFETIME, AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE ELSE'S RECENTLY, ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY.

IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT, HOW ARE YOU DOING?

YEAH.

AND GO BACK TO FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON, RIGHT?

IN THE WAR ROOM W, WHAT WAS THE BANNER?

IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID.

WE ALWAYS FORGET THAT.

AND I WAS VERY SURPRISED TO SEE THE LACK OF ENTHUSIASM, PARTICULARLY FROM HIS BASE, WHO I THINK MORE THAN ANYBODY, FEELS THE PAIN OF INFLATION.

AND SO, I WOULD SAY, AS THE MIDTERMS COME, I WOULD THINK THEY'RE GOING TO RECOGNIZE THEY NEED TO FOCUS MORE ON THE ECONOMY.

AND AGAIN, YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, WELL, UKRAINE DOESN'T EXIST, IT EXISTS, I MEAN, YOU HAVE OIL ISSUES, THE PROFESSOR CAN TELL US, I WOULD LOVE TO LISTEN TO HER FOR HOURS ABOUT IT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, HE HAS TO TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY.

KIMBERLY, IT'S BECOME, I THINK, SOMETHING OF A PARLOR GAME, I DON'T MEAN TO DIMINISH THE IMPORTANCE OF THE STATE OF THE UNION, BUT OVER THE LAST FEW DECADES, HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU GET BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE TO STAND UP AND APPLAUD?

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE ONE SIDE SIT ON THEIR HANDS AND THE OTHER EXEXPLODE OUT OF THEIR SEATS.

WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT HOW OFTEN LAST NIGHT THERE WERE INSTANCES OF BOTH SIDES STANDING UP?

KIMBERLY, WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

WELL, I THINK THE PRESIDENT WENT IN WITH A VERY CLEAR MESSAGE, OR CLEAR PERSONAL MANDATE TO TRY AND UNIFY THE COUNTRY AND HE TALKED, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THE ISSUES THAT HE SPENT MORE TIME ON AND THOSE WERE THINGS THAT HE THOUGHT PEOPLE COULD, YOU KNOW, BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE COULD REALLY GET BEHIND.

AND YOU SAW THAT, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THINKING BACK TO PRESIDENT TRUMP'S STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESSES, MANY OF PRESIDENT OBAMA'S STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESSES, YOU KNOW BOTH SIDES WERE STONE-FACED WHEN THE OTHER SIDE WAS CHEERING.

AND I THINK THIS WAS A REFRESHING CHANGE TO SEE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR MANY OF THE THINGS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN BROUGHT UP.

THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT, THOUGH, IS MANY DEMOCRATS WERE, YOU KNOW, NOT -- YOU KNOW, NOT PLEASED THAT HE DIDN'T SPEND MORE TIME TALKING ABOUT MANY OF THE THINGS THAT THEY HAVE R REALLY, YOU KNOW, PUSHED AS THEIR CORE.

THERE WAS A PASSING, YOU KNOW, MENTION OF ABORTION RIGHTS, VOTING RIGHTS, YOU KNOW, CLIMATE WAS, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSED IN TERMS OF WEATHERIZING OUR HOMES, BUT NOT NECESSARILY, YOU KNOW, MONUMENTAL POLICY SHIFT.

SO, THERE ARE DEFINITELY -- THINGS THAT OTHERS WERE REALLY LOOKING FORWARDS AND HOPING THAT HE WOULD HAVE SPENT MORE TIME ON, BUT I THINK IN TERMS OF TRYING TO UNIFY THE COUNTRY AND HIS LAST FOUR POINTS AT THE END, HIS UNITY AGENDA, WERE REALLY ATTEMPTING TO DO THAT.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, HE WAS PRETTY SUCCESSFUL.

SO, IT WAS -- IT WAS A BREATH OF FRESH AIR AND, YOU KNOW, TRIES TO BRING PEOPLE BACK TO THE MIDDLE FROMLE THE POLARIZED ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM.

TOM, LET ME ASK YOU, TO FOLLOW UP ON THOSE THOUGHTS, DO YOU SENSE THAT THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN EFFORT BY THE PRESIDENT, NOT NECESSARILY TO PIVOT, I THINK THAT'S TOO DRAMATIC A TERM, BUT AS WE KNOW, KIMBERLY MENTIONED THIS, YOU KNOW, HE HAS ALWAYS PRIDED HIMSELF DURING HIS LEGISLATIVE CAREER ON SOMEBODY THAT COULD BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER.

AND HE RAN ON THAT BASIS, BEING A UNIFIER, RATHER THAN A DIVIDER.

UNDERSTANDING HOW TERRIBLY DIVIDED WE ARE RIGHT NOW, HOW HYPER-PARTISAN WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

AND WHEN HE FIRST GOT INTO OFFICE, THERE WERE A LOT OF FOLKS, CERTAINLY P ON ONE SIDE OF THE AISLE, BUT EVEN SUPPORTERS SAYING, THINKING THAT HE HAD GONE TOO FAR TOO QUICKLY TO THE LEFT.

THEY LOOKED AT THE BUILD BACK BETTER ACT, SAID, THERE'S SOME THINGS IN THERE THAT WERE REALLY GOOD THAT BOTH SIDES COULD AGREE ON, BUT THERE'S SO MUCH IN THERE THAT IT WAS JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, AND HE COULDN'T EVEN GET ALL THE DEMOCRATS ONBOARD WITH IT.

DID YOU GET A SENSE, TOM, AGAIN, SOMEBODY WHO LIVES IN THE WORLD OF MESSAGING, THAT THIS MIGHT BE HIM BACKING OFF A LITTLE BIT?

BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE THINGS, AS KIMBERLY MENTIONED, THAT HE DIDN'T MENTION OR MENTIONED VERY BRIEFLY.

WE KNOW HE SAID IN THE PAST HE IS FOR FUNDING THE POLICE, NOT FOR DEFUNDING, BUT HE SAID IT IN THIS BIG PLATFORM NOW.

DID YOU GET A SENSE THAT THIS MIGHT BE HIM SORT OF SENDING A MESSAGE, SAYING, I'M COMING TO THE MIDDLE, COME WITH ME, LET'S GET SOMETHING DONE.

WELL, I MEAN, HE'S CERTAINLY GOING INTO THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS, WHICH, BY EVERY CALCULUS LOOKS LIKE THE REPUBLICANS WILL TAKE OVER THE HOUSE, AND HIS NUMBERS BEING WHERE THEY ARE, HAVING, YOU KNOW, THE LAST YEAR, AS YOU JUST SAID, SORT OF CATERED A LITTLE BIT TO THE LEFT, AT LEAST THAT HAS BEEN THE PERCEPTION, RECOGNIZES THAT, LOOK, THERE IS A LARGE CENTER OF THIS COUNTRY THAT I AM NOT DOING WELL WITH.

AND IF THE DEMOCRATS HAVE ANY HOPE OF HOLDING ONTO THE SENATE AND HOLDING ONTO THE HOUSE, WHICH I DON'T THINK THEY WILL DO, IT'S GOING TO BE HE NEEDS TO KIND OF RERESET IN THAT DIRECTI A LITTLE BIT.

NOW, THAT WILL MAKE HIS BASE A LITTLE BIT UNHAPPY, BUT YOU KNOW, ALL POLITICS IS -- IF YOU DON'T WIN, YOU CAN'T DO MUCH, AND I THINK HE RECOGNIZES THAT GOING FORWARD THAT, LOOK, WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT, AND YOU SAW WHAT, YOU KNOW, HAPPENED THIS YEAR, EVEN WITH, YOU KNOW, A MAJORITY, AT LEAST IN THE SENATE, WITH THE VICE PRESIDENT'S VOTE, HE NEEDS MORE TO GET STUFF DONE.

AND I THINK THAT HE'S GOT TO FIGURE OUT A WAY THAT EVEN ON SOME OF THE LOWER HANGING FRUIT, HE COULD.

GO INTO LAST NIGHT TALKING ABOUT CANCELING STUDENT DEATH, HEALTH CARE FOR ALL, ABORTION RIGHTS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, NOT THAT SOME OF THOSE POSITIONS ARE EXTREME, BUT THEY'RE CERTAINLY NOT THE THINGS THAT AMERICANS ON A DAILY BASIS ARE FEELING AND CONFRONTING RIGHT NOW.

SO, I WOULD THINK THAT HE CAN'T JUST DO IT LAST NIGHT, AS I SAID EARLIER, JACK, IT HAS TO BE AN ONGOING MESSAGE AND HE STARTS -- HE NEEDS TO START CHECKING OFF WINS AND GOING AROUND THE COUNTRY AND PROMOTING THOSE WINS, YOU KNOW, COVID -- ONE OF THE THINGS COVID DID WAS, IT STOPPED THAT FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

YOU KNOW, YOU COULDN'T TAKE A PROGRAM AND GO SELL IT AROUND THE COUNTRY, JUST BECAUSE NOBODY WAS OUT, PEOPLE WEARING MASKS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

I WOULD THINK OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, THE PRESIDENT AND HIS TEAM ARE GOING TO TRAVEL A LITTLE BIT MORE TO DO SOME OF THAT MESSAGING.

THEY CERTAINLY NEED TO.

PROFESSOR, LET ME BOUNCE BACK TO YOU, AND IT'S SOMETHING I MEANT TO ASK YOU BEFORE, BUT SOMETHING THAT KIMBERLY TALKED ABOUT IN TERMS OF THE PRESIDENT'S COMMENTS AND HOW THEY MIGHT HAVE IMPACT ON THE NOTION OF RACE IN OUR COUNTRY AND I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT SOMETHING WE'VE SEEN REPORTED, AND THAT IS THE ALLEGATIONS THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR, BLACK PEOPLE, WHO ARE TRYING TO GET OUT OF UKRAINE WERE BEING PROHIBITED FROM DOING THAT.

AND I GUESS MY QUESTION TO YOU AGAIN, AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN THERE ON THE GROUND, WE DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS COMPLETELY, BUT WHAT DOES THAT SOUND LIKE TO YOU?

THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE MASSIVE BUREAUCRACY THAT PLAGUES THIS PART OF THE WORLD, AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR PAPERS IN EXACTLY CORRECT ORDER, YOU'RE GOING TO GET SOME TROUBLE, P PLUS -- PLUS, YOU KNOW, OUTRIGHT RACISM, I MEAN -- I'M NOT THAT W WELL-INFORMED ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, BUT I'M NOT SURPRISED.

AND I WOULD JUST POINT OUT THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF REALLY IMPRESSIVE AMERICANS HERE, INDIVIDUALS HELPING THEM, ADVOCATING ON BEHALF OF INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE IN UKRAINE TO GET THEM OVER THE BORDER, THAT'S ONE OF THE BEAUTIFUL THINGS ABOUT TWITTER AND ABOUT OUR SOCIAL MEDIA.

THINGS ARE BEING DONE.

KIMBERLY, LET ME COME BACK TO YOU AND SORT OF CONNECT IT TO THAT, BUT THE NOTION OF RACE, ISSUES OF RACE, THE NOTION OF PROBLEMS WITH PEOPLE OF COLOR, IMMIGRATION, WOMEN'S ISSUES, WE SAW THE PRESIDENT BRIEFLY SPEAK ON THAT.

SO, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE HERE, DID YOU GET THE SENSE THAT THERE WILL BE AS MUCH OF A PUSH MOVING FORWARD ON THOSE ISSUES, THOSE SOCIAL ISSUES, THAT WE KNOW ARE DIVIDING BETWEEN THE PARTIES.

DID YOU GET A SENSE THERE WILL BE AS MUCH PUSHING FORWARD WITH THAT?

WELL, I THINK GOING BY WHAT WAS DISCUSSED AND NOT DISCUSSED IN THE STATE OF THE UNION, UNFORTUNATELY, NO.

WE SAW IN THE REPUBLICAN RESPONSE THAT THEY TOOK ON, YOU KNOW, HEAD-ON, CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND EDUCATION IN OUR SCHOOLS.

THEY TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, VALUES AND, YOU KNOW, THE REPUBLICAN PLAYBOOK THAT HAS REALLY PUSHED BACK ON A LOT OF THESE CONVERSATIONS, PARTICULARLY AROUND CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM, VOTING RIGHTS, AND WOMEN'S RIGHTS, AND, YOU KNOW, HE DID MENTION BY NAME THE EQUALITY ACT, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT ABSOLUTELY NEEDS TO HAPPEN, GIVEN WHAT IS HAPPENING IN TEXAS RIGHT NOW WITH TRANSGENDER YOUTH.

SO, I THINK THERE ARE -- THERE WAS A LOT THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SAID, THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE WERE REALLY LOOKING FOR, TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE BLACK AND BROWN MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY, OF OUR NATION, REALLY HAD A CHAMPION, I THINK, THOUGH THEY WEREN'T TELEGRAPHED IN THIS, I'M HOPING THAT THEY DON'T FALL OFF THE -- YOU KNOW, FALL OFF THE TABLE, GIVEN ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN THE WORLD, BUT I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS, I THINK, LEARNED FROM THEIR FIRST YEAR OF, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING AT THE SAME TIME WAS NOT EFFECTIVE AND, YOU KNOW, COMING BACK TO THE MESSAGING, THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO MESSAGE AROUND ALL OF THESE THINGS IN AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO BE ABLE TO MOVE THEM FORWARD.

SO, I'M HOPING IN THE NEXT THREE YEARS THERES THEY WILL BE DELIB AND INTENTION ABOUT ABOUT HOW THEY ADVANCE BOTH WOMEN'S RIGHTS, YOU KNOW, ADDRESS RACIAL INEQUITIES IN THIS COUNTRY AND ECONOMIC INEQUITY.

WELL, THERE WAS, AS I SAID IN THE BEGINNING, MUCH FOR US TO TALK ABOUT.

I THINK THE QUESTION NOW BECOMES, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

I WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU AGAIN, PROFESSOR, TOM, KIMBERLY, FOR SPENDING TIME WITH US.

WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING WITH US AGAIN IN THE FUTURE.

YOU ALL BE WELL NOW.

> 'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY --