MetroFocus: November 4, 2021

On October 21st Halyna Hutchins, a cinematographer working on the set of the western film “Rust,” was tragically shot and killed by actor Alec Baldwin after he fired a revolver he’d been told was safe but actually contained live ammunition. The incident is currently being investigated by local authorities and it remains unclear how exactly this lethal mistake occurred. The shooting has sent shock waves throughout the entertainment industry, with many left wondering how an event like this could have happened on a union controlled set, and if there are currently enough safety protocols in place to protect cast and crew members. Tonight we discuss the tragedy and how to prevent a similar future incident with award-winning NY and LA cinematographer Nancy Schreiber- the fourth woman ever voted into membership of the prestigious American Society of Cinematographers- and a member of Local 600, the union that represents film workers.

Emmanuel Acho’s “Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man” began as engaging and intuitive conversations on Instagram. Now as a book, in collaboration with Oprah, the former NFL linebacker and sports analyst is gathering those thoughts and answers to tackle systemic racism in America and encourage anti-racist work.

 

 

TRANSCRIPT

> THIS IS 'METROFOCUS,' WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

> 'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION, THE JPB FOUNDATION.

> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS,' I'M RAFAEL PI ROMAN.

ON OCTOBER 21st, HALYNA HUTCHINS, THE CINEMATOGRAPHER WORKING ON THE SET OF THE WESTERN FILM 'RUST' WAS TRAGICALLY SHOT AND KILLED BY ACTOR ALEC BALDWIN WHEN HE FIRED A REVOLVER WHEN HE TOLD WAS SAFE BUT IN REALITY CONTAINED LIVE AMMUNITION.

THE SITUATION IS CURRENTLY BEING INVESTIGATED BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND IT REMAINS UNCLEAR HOW EXACTLY THIS LETHAL MISTAKE OCCURRED.

THE SHOOTING HAT SENT SHOCKWAVES THROUGHOUT THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY WITH MANY LEFT WONDERING HOW AN EVENT LIKE THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED AND IF THERE ARE CURRENTLY ENOUGH SAFETY PROTOCOLS IN PLACE TO PROTECT CAST AND CREW MEMBERS.

THE SHOOTING TOOK PLACE JUST DAYS AFTER THE UNION THAT REPRESENTS MOST BELOW THE LINE CREW MEMBERS AND THE STUDIOS THAT EMPLOY THEM HAD REACHED A TENTATIVE CONTRACT AGREEMENT THAT MUST NOW BE RATIFIED BY UNION MEMBERS.

AND JOINING US NOW TO DISCUSS THE TRAGIC SHOOTING, HOW IT HAPPENED AND WHAT MUST NOW HAPPEN TO ENSURE THAT A SIMILAR TRAGEDY DOES NOT OCCUR AGAIN IS NANCY SCHREIBER.

SHE'S AN AWARD-WINNING CINEMATOGRAPHER BASED IN NEW YORK AND LOS ANGELES.

SHE WAS THE FOURTH WOMEN EVER VOTED INTO THE AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CINEMATOGRAPHERS AND SHE IS A MEMBER OF LOCAL 600, LOCAL CINEMATOGRAPHERS OF THE INTERNATIONAL ALLIANCE OF THEATRICAL STAGE EMPLOYEES.

NANCY, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

SO NICE TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS.

AND I SHOULD SAY, NANCY, THAT YOU'RE NOT ONLY A MEMBER, YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE UNION THAT I HAD THE HONOR OF REPRESENTING FOR TEN YEARS IN VARIOUS JOBS AND I HAVE TO TELL OUR VIEWERS THAT YOU ARE THE FIRST WOMAN GAFFER IN THE UNION AND THE FIRST WOMAN DIRECTOR/PHOTOGRAPHER IN THAT UNION, SO, PEOPLE KNOW YOU ARE A TRAIL BLAZER.

AND A LEGEND, I HAVE TO SAY.

OH, MY.

THAT I HAVE STAYING POWER AND WE CAN KEEP GOING NO MATTER WHATEVER OUR AGE.

SO, LISTEN, LET ME START OF WITH THIS.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I TALK TO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IN THE FILM BUSINESS, ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO HALYNA, THEY ARE IN SHOCK THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD HAPPEN ON A PROFESSIONAL FILM SET TODAY.

I WONDER IF YOU WERE SO SHOCKED THAT THIS HAPPENED.

THE EMOTIONS ARE REALLY COMPLEX.

YES, SHOCKED, ANGER, DISBELIEF THAT IT REALLY HAPPENED, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE ALEC BALDWIN HAS BEEN AROUND A VERY LONG TIME WITH VERY MANY GUNS ON SET, AS HAVE I.

AND WHY WAS LIVE AMMUNITION EVEN PERMITTED AND WE DON'T KNOW ALL THE FACTS, BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT, YES, THERE WAS LIVE AMMUNITION, YES THE FIRST A.D.

SAID HE DIDN'T THOROUGHLY CHECK.

THIS IS, NUMBER ONE, WHAT ALWAYS HAPPENS ON EVERY SET I'VE EVER BEEN ON WITH GUNS WITH BLANKS, NEVER LIVE AMMUNITION.

24-YEAR-OLD ARMORER HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF BLAME.

WHAT ABOUT THE PRODUCERS, THE ACTUAL ON THE GROUND PRODUCERS, NOT THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS LIKE ALEC BALDWIN?

AND I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FIND OUT IS THAT IN THE PAST, THERE WERE MANY ISSUES WITH THE PRODUCERS, THE ARMORER WAS QUITE YOUNG, BUT THERE HAS BEEN PROBLEMS ON THE SET PRIOR.

THE FIRST A.D. HAD BEEN FIRED.

NOW, IT WAS AMAZING THAT ALL OF THIS HAPPENED ON ONE PRODUCTION AND ALSO SOME PEOPLE KNOW THAT THE CAMERA DEPARTMENT, WHICH WAS UNION, THE WHOLE TEAM WAS NOT, BUT THEY DID WALK BECAUSE OF CONDITIONS, NOT GETTING PAID, NOT BEING PUT UP -- ACTUALLY, THEY WERE PUT UP IN A MOTEL --

FAR AWAY.

FAR AWAY, WHICH MEANT THE TRAVEL.

THEY HAD LESS REST TIME AS A RESULT.

EXACTLY.

AND THAT IS THE ISSUE -- ONE OF THE ISSUES WE HAVE BEEN FACING WITH OUR UNION AND AS YOU SAID, JUST DAYS BEFORE WE FINALLY HAVE A TENTATIVE AGREEMENT THAT IS STILL NOT VOTED ON --

AND I'LL ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

BUT AMONG THE THINGS THAT ALEC BALDWIN SAID IN A BRIEF CONVERSATION THAT HE HAD WITH REPORTERS WAS THAT THIS WAS A WELL-OILED TEAM, CREW AND THAT CATASTROPHES LIKE THIS SHOW THAT NEW MEASURES S HAVE TO BE IMPLEMENTED.

IT'S CLEAR THIS WASN'T A WELL-OILED CREW.

AND FROM MY EXPERIENCE, FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, I KNOW, A FILM LIKE THIS, YOU CAN TELL A MILE AWAY, THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE WELL-OILED, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE THEY HIRE.

THEY HIRE THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE KNOWN AS -- AS PEOPLE WHO CAN MAKE LOW BUDGET FILMS WORK, LET ME PUT IT KINDLY, AND NO IN SPITE OF IT.

BUT IN ANY EVENT, IS IT REALLY THE FACT THAT NEW MEASURES HAVE TO BE IMPLEMENTED, OR SIMPLY THAT THE MEASURES EXIST, THE PROTOCOLS THAT EXIST HAVE TO BE IMPLEMENTED?

I THINK WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

WE HAVE BEEN CIRCULATING A PETITION TO KEEP WORKING GUNS, WORKING FIREARMS, WITHOUT LIVE AMMO, OFF THE SET.

YES, THERE ARE SAFER ALTERNATIVES, THERE ARE GUNS THAT LOOK ALMOST REAL AND CERTAINLY THE EFFECTS HAVE BEEN USED.

I WAS SPEAKING TO TO THE -- ONE OF THE FX PEOPLE WAY BACK ON 'IN GLOR 'INGLORIOUS GBASTERDS' IN 2009.

THEY CAN DO THIS.

PEOPLE SAY, WE NEED THE REALITY OF THE KICKBACK -- THERE ARE WAYS THAT YOU CAN ADAPT GUNS.

SO, YES, WE HAVE REGULATIONS.

THE ARMORERS ARE EXTREMELY CAREFUL, TRAINED, EVERY SET I'VE EVER BEEN ON, NOT ONLY THE FIRST A.D., BUT MYSELF AND MY OPERATORS, WE ALL LOOKED AT THESE GUNS TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NOTHING IN CHAMBERS.

I DO HAVE TO SAY THAT WHEN WE HAVE GUNS, LIVE GUNS, WELL, WITH BLANKS, EVEN, IT DOES TAKE TIME.

WE'RE PUT TING THINGS IN FRONT F OUR LENSES, THE SETUPS ARE MUCH MORE RESTRICTIVE.

WE DIDN'T HAVE REAL GUNS, LIKE, NO BLANKS AT ALL, WE COULD MOVE THE CAMERA EASIER, CHEAPER FOR THE EFFECTS, TO GET CLOSER TO AN ACTOR.

THAT CAN ENHANCE THE REALITY OF THE MOMENT.

SO -- I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A LONG DISCUSSION AND MANY CINEMATOGRAPHERS HAVE SIGNED THIS PETITION TO KEEP WORKING FIREARMS OFF THE SET.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE WONDERED WHY THAT HASN'T HAPPENED ALREADY, BUT THEY'RE NOT IN THE BUSINESS AND THEY DON'T KNOW HOW, YOU KNOW, TIGHT BUDGETS SOMETIMES ARE AND THAT PLAYS INTO IT.

AND SOME DIRECTORS FEEL THEY WANT THE REALITY, BUT AS WE KNOW, FILMS ARE BEING SHOT EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD AND, YOU KNOW, I'VE SHOT LOS ANGELES FROM NEW YORK, I'VE SHOT, YOU KNOW, CANADA FOR SO MANY LOCATIONS, IS THAT REAL?

YOU KNOW, IF YOU REALLY SLOW DOWN AND LOOK, IT'S NOT REAL.

YEAH.

SO --

SO, NANCY, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS WORKING ALL THOSE YEARS AGO, THERE WERE VERY FEW WOMEN DIRECTORS OF CINEMATOGRAPHER.

I LOOK AROUND, I DON'T SEE THAT MANY WOMEN DIRECTORS OF CINEMATOGRAPHY NOW.

AM I RIGHT?

AND IF I AM, HOW COME?

THERE ARE SO MANY MORE IN THE LAST DECADE THAT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PROGRESS, ESPECIALLY IN TELEVISION, IN EPISODIC AND MORE RECENTLY IN FEATURE FILMS.

WHICH WAS THE LAST BASTION.

I UNDERSTAND WHY HALYNA DID NOT WALK OFF THE SET, BECAUSE I HAD BEEN THERE, NEVER IN AN UNSAFE SITUATION, BUT IN LOW BUDGET FILM MAKING, WHERE I FELT THERE WERE ABUSES AND NEGATIVE ENERGY DUE TO PERSONALITIES.

THIS WAS A BIG BREAK FOR HER, YOU KNOW, ALEC BALDWIN AND A WESTERN.

IT WASN'T SOME SMALL INDIE, INTIMATE, YOU KNOW, TWO-PERSON IN AN APARTMENT IN NEW YORK FILM.

THIS WAS A BREAK FOR HER.

AND I GET WHY SHE DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE.

SHE PUT UP WITH A LOT, YEAH.

YOU KNOW, NANCY, GUN -- THE PROBLEMS WITH GUNS, THAT'S NOT THE ONLY SAFETY ISSUE ON A FILM SET.

AS YOU KNOW, FILM SETS CAN BE DANGEROUS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF MOVING PARTS, THERE ARE A LOT OF HEAVY PARTS THAT NEED EXPERT RIGGING.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, THERE ARE A LOT OF EXPERTS ON THE SET WHO ARE WORKING DAY AFTER DAY WITH 14-HOUR-PLUS DAYS WITH VERY LITTLE REST.

AND THAT LEADS TO ACCIDENTS, I REMEMBER, THAT YOU DON'T SEE IN THE NEWSPAPERS EVERY DAY, BUT THEY DO.

AS WE TALKED ABOUT, THE CONTRACT HAS JUST BEEN NEGOTIATED WITH THE PRODUCERS.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE SEEN THE CONTRACT YET --

YEAH, FOR SURE.

HAVE SAFETY ISSUES BEEN AN IMPORTANT PART OF THIS CONTRACT AND DOES IT DEAL WITH IT WELL?

SAFETY ISSUES ARE VERY MUCH APART OF THIS NEW CONTRACT.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE OUR PRESIDENT OF LOCAL 600, JOHN LINLEY, WAS THE DIRECTOR OF PHOTOGRAPHY ON 'PLEASANTVILLE' WHEN HIS FIRST ASSISTANT BRETT HIRSCHMAN DIED FALLING ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL.

THIS WAS A LONG TIME AGO.

AND EVEN AT THAT TIME, WE TRIED TO GET OUR HOURS REDUCED.

A FILM LIKE 'PLEASANTVILLE' AND EVERY TELEVISION SERIES HAS ENOUGH MONEY TO LET PEOPLE GET THE REST THEY NEED SO THEY CAN FUNCTION AND DO THE WORK THAT WE ARE HIRED FOR.

SO, IT'S BEEN ON FOR A LONG TIME AND THIS IS THE CLOSEST WE'VE GOTTEN TO GUARANTEED TEN-HOUR TURNAROUND, WHICH MEANS FROM WRAP, YOU NEED TO BE ON SET TEN HOURS AFTER.

MOST PEOPLE LIVE AN HOUR AWAY AND THEY WILL HAVE TO COMMUTE, SO IT'S REDUCED.

THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENED, AND THIS HAPPENED TO ME, I HAPPENED TO WORK A LOT IN NEW MEXICO, ACTUALLY, AND I WAS DOING AN AMAZON PILOT IN THE SPRING WITH COVID, WE WERE TESTED EVERY DAY, EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE WAS DOUBLE VAXED BY THAT POINT, MASKED AND THINGS SLOWED DOWN.

WE DID NOT STOP FOR MEAL BREAKS.

AND THAT IS ANOTHER ISSUE, BECAUSE THERE'S CERTAIN DEPARTMENTS, MY DEPARTMENT, CAMERA, NO ONE CAN GO AND LEAVE THE SET TO GO EAT --

THAT'S INCREDIBLE, YEAH.

RIGHT.

AND YES, IT WAS NICE TO FINISH EARLY AND JUST GO TEN HOURS AND FORTUNATELY, OUR PRODUCERS WERE REALLY GOOD ABOUT OUR HOURS ON THAT SHOW, BUT THERE ARE MANY THAT JUST DON'T CARE AND THEY WANT TO PUSH, PUSH, PUSH AND ACCIDENTS WILL HAPPEN.

YEAH.

WE HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT, THAT'S ALL AND I -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO SILVER LINING OUT OF THIS INCREDIBLE TRAGEDY, HALYNA'S DEAD AND YOU CAN'T FIX THAT.

BUT DO YOU HAVE A HOPE THAT SOMETHING GOOD CAN COME OUT OF IT IN THE LONG RUN THAT YOU, WHO WORK IN THIS INDUSTRY, CAN BE BETTER PROTECTED?

15 SECONDS.

I HOPE SO.

THE CORPORATIONS THAT ARE PRODUCING, NEGOTIATING PARTNERS ARE AMAZON AND NETFLIX AND AMAZON AND APPLE, THEY ARE NOT PRODUCERS, SO, WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO FOR FILM MAKING TO BE CONSIDERED AN IMPORTANT ART.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO END IT THERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS,' I'M JACK FORD.

DURING THIS EXTRAORDINARY PERIOD OF SOCIAL AND POLITICAL TURMOIL, WE'VE COME TO REALIZE THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE DESPERATELY NEED IS MEANINGFUL CONVERSATION.

A COMMODITY THAT HAS BEEN SCARCE UP UNTIL NOW, BUT WE ARE FORTUNATE THAT ONE MAN HAS STEPPED FORWARD.

MANUEL ACHO HAS USED HIS STATUS AS A FORMER FOOTBALL STAR, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS, IN THE NFL, TO CREATE A PLATFORM FOR CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE MEANINGFUL, THAT ARE REAL, THAT ARE RELEVANT AND PERHAPS, MOST IMPORTANT, THAT ARE DIFFICULT.

AND HE JOINS US NOW TO TALK ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK, HIS BOOK HAS BORROWED, IF I CAN, THE TITLE FROM HIS ENORMOUSLY SUCCESSFUL VIDEO SERIES.

AND THE BOOK IS ENTITLED 'UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS WITH A BLACK MAN.'

AND EMANUEL JOINS US AS PART OF OUR 'CHASING THE DREAM' INITIATIVE ON POVERTY, JUSTICE AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IN AMERICA.

EMANUEL, WELCOME.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

JACK, THE PLEASURE IS MINE AND THANK YOU FOR THE KIND INTRODUCTION, MY FRIEND.

I HAVE TO SAY, I READ THE BOOK YESTERDAY, IT WAS FABULOUS.

IT WAS ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT I MENTIONED.

BUT I THOUGHT, AS IMPORTANT, IT WAS AS IF -- AS I WAS READING THE BOOK, I WAS ACTUALLY HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH YOU.

YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT BOOKS ARE WRITTEN IN DIFFERENT FASHIONS AND I SUSPECT THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED.

I WANT TO GET TO THE BOOK IN A SECOND, BUT I THINK FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE THIS BOOK IS COMING FROM, I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT YOU.

AND I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT, AGAIN, I MENTIONED YOUR EXTRAORDINARY FOOTBALL SUCCESS, BUT I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT IN YOUR BOOK, YOU SAY THIS, EARLY ON, YOU SAY, YOUR WORDS, 'I'VE BEEN NAVIGATING THE LANES BETWEEN WHITENESS AND BLACKNESS ALL OF MY LIFE.'

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

SO, JACK, IF WE CAN START THIS OFF BY BEING UNCOMFORTABLE, I'VE REALIZED THAT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COLOR AND CULTURE.

SO, JACK, I WENT TO AN AFFLUENT, WHITE PRIVATE SCHOOL FROM GRADES 5 THROUGH GRADE 12.

YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A NATIONAL MERIT SCHOLAR, GO TO HARVARD, GO TO YALE.

I WAS 6'4', 240 POUNDS.

YOU KNOW WHAT, I'LL PLAY FOOTBALL.

LET ME PUT THIS IN CON TICKET.

THERE WERE PERFECT S.A.T. SCORES FROM STUDENTS IN MY HIGH SCHOOL CLASS.

THERE WERE 16-YEAR-OLDS WHO WERE ALREADY COMPOSING MUSIC FOR VIOLINS AND CELLO.

LIKE, I WAS AT A SCHOOL WITH THE CREAM OF THE CROP.

IT'S CALLED ST. MARK'S SCHOOL IN TEXAS, NUMBER ONE PRIVATE SCHOOL IN DALLAS.

SO, I WAS IMMERSED IN WHITE CULTURE, JACK.

THEN I GO TO THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS PLAYING FOOTBALL IN AUSTIN, THEN GO TO THE NFL, I WAS IMMERSED IN BLACK CULTURE, BUT I'M FIRST GENERATION AMERICAN.

MY PARENTS WERE BORN IN NIGERIA, SO, WHILE MY SKIN IS BLACK, I GREW UP NIGERIAN CULTURE, SO, I HAD TO LEARN WHITE CULTURE.

AND THEN I HAD TO LEARN BLACK CULTURE.

SO, I HAD TO NAVIGATE WHITE SPACES AND I HAD TO NAVIGATE BLACK SPACES.

THAT'S WHY I CAN HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE WHILE WE ALL SPEAK ENGLISH, JACK.

THERE IS A CLEAR, LARGE COMMUNICATION BARRIER BETWEEN WHITE PEOPLE AND HOW THEY COMMUNICATE TO BLACK PEOPLE AND HOW THEY COMMUNICATE.

I SHOULD NOTE, BY THE WAY, I PLAYED FOOTBALL AT YALE AND I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE YOU COME UP TO NEW HAVEN TO PLAY FOR THE YALE BULLDOGS, BUT -- OUR LOSS AND THE LONGHORNS' GAIN.

LET ME GO WITH THE TITLE OF THE BOOK, BECAUSE I THINK TITLES ARE SO INTERESTING AND SO IMPORTANT AND THEY ARE SO DIFFICULT TO COME UP WITH, OFTENTIMES.

I KNOW YOU HAD A WORKING TITLE THAT WAS DIFFERENT FROM THIS.

WHY IS THE NOTION OF UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS SO IMPORTANT?

BECAUSE I THINK THAT ANYTHING WORTH DOING, IT IS THROUGH DISCOMFORT.

ANYTHING GREAT, JACK -- AND PLAYING FOOTBALL, IN ORDER TO START THE SEASON, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH TRAINING CAMP.

AND TRAINING CAMP, FOR THOSE THAT ARE WATCHING AND DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS, TRAINING CAMP IS GRUELING PRACTICES IN THE TEXAS HEAT, FOR ME, WITH ABOUT 12 POUNDS OF PADDING ON.

YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT DISCOMFORT TO ACHIEVE YOUR GOAL.

WOMEN GO THROUGH NO SMALL AMOUNT OF DISCOMFORT AND PAIN TO BIRTH THE NEXT GREAT CHILD THAT WILL ACCOMPLISH THE NEXT GREAT THING.

I THINK, JACK, IF WE WANT TO DO ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT IN OUR COUNTRY, WHICH IS MEND THE DIVIDE OF RACISM, WHICH IS BRIDGE THE GAPS AND LEAD TO RACIAL RECONCILIATION, IT WILL HAVE TO BE UNCOMFORTABLE.

THE STRUCTURE OF THE BOOK, I THINK, IS VERY INTERESTING AND VERY COMPELLING.

DIFFERENT SUBJECTS ARE TREATED IN EACH ONE.

SUCH AS, WHAT SHOULD YOU CALL US?

YOU KNOW, AND YOU HAVE THIS -- THE WHOLE -- WHERE YOU LOOK ABOUT BACK IN HISTORY, YOU LOOK AT COLORED AND NEGRO AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND BLACK AND YOU FOCUS ON ALL OF THOSE.

YOU TALK ABOUT HOW YOU CAN BE AN ALLY.

YOU CAN TALK ABOUT HOW YOU HAVE CONVERSATIONS.

IN TERMS OF STRUCTURE, EACH CHAPTER STARTS WITH A QUESTION AND IT'S SO INTERESTING TO SEE THOSE QUESTIONS, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT -- THEY'RE NOT REALLY YOUR QUESTIONS.

WHERE DO THE QUESTIONS COME FROM?

GREAT QUESTION.

AFTER THE FIRST EPISODE, JACK, I GOT 25 MILLION VIEWS IN ABOUT FOUR DAYS.

AND I WAS, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO, BUT THE HEART OF THE SHOW WAS TO TALK TO PEOPLE, SO I READ EVERY SINGLE EMAIL, PROBABLY 1,300 EMAILS IN THE FIRST FOUR DAYS AND I WOULD FLAG EMAILS OF QUESTIONS THAT I WANTED TO GET TO IN MORE DETAIL.

SO, EVERY QUESTION THAT YOU SEE IN MY BOOK WHICH STARTS EVERY CHAPTER COMES FROM A REAL PERSON, A GENUINE SPACE AND SINCERITY AND I FLAGGED THESE QUESTIONS FROM WAY BACK WHEN AND I HAD TRIED TO FIND DUPLICATING THEMES.

SO, I START EVERY CHAPTER WITH REAL QUESTIONS FROM REAL PEOPLE.

ONCE AGAIN, TALKING WITH EMANUEL ACHO, WHO AMONG OTHER ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN HIS LIFE IS THE AUTHOR OF THE NEW BOOK TITLED 'UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS WITH A BLACK MAN.'

LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT SOME SPECIFICS HERE.

AND EACH OF THESE CHAPTERS ARE JUST SO COMPELLING.

I WANT TO TOUCH BASE ON A COUPLE OF THEM HERE.

IN ONE OF THEM, YOU TALK ABOUT THE FACT -- AND PEOPLE MAY FIND THIS ODD -- YOU TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE SHOULD STOP CELEBRATING COLOR BLINDNESS.

MOST PEOPLE, IF YOU ASK THEM, THEY WOULD THINK, IF THEY WOULD SAY THEY ARE COLOR BLIND, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE A POSITIVE.

BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING.

WHY NOT AND WHAT SHOULD WE BE DOING?

AH, BECAUSE THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INTENTION AND DIRECTION.

THE INTENTION BEHIND BEING COLOR BLIND IS PURE.

IT'S TRYING TO SAY THAT, I TREAT ALL PEOPLE EQUALLY, BECAUSE I'M COLOR BLIND.

WHEN, IN FACT, WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING IS SEEING EACH OTHER'S COLORS, CULTURES AND APPRECIATING THEM NONETHELESS.

JACK, IMAGINE HOW SILLY IT WOULD BE IF I WALKED OUTSIDE AFTER AN OVERCAST DAY AND YOU WERE LIKE, OH, EMANUEL, LOOK AT THAT RAINBOW.

WELL, JACK, I CAN'T SEE THE RAINBOW, I'M COLOR BLIND.

THAT'S SO SILLY.

WHEN YOU DON'T SEE COLOR, YOU DON'T SEE THE BEAUTY THAT COMES WITH THAT.

THERE'S A BEAUTY THAT COMES WITH MY COLOR BEING BLACK AND BEING BROWN AND THERE'S A BEAUTY THAT COMES WITH MY CULTURE.

I DON'T ASK YOU NOT TO SEE IT, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE TO NOT SEE ME.

EVERY ATTRIBUTE THAT DESCRIBES ME, MY HEIGHT, MY WEIGHT, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, BUT SEE THE BEAUTY THAT IS IN THAT.

SO, DON'T BE COLOR BLIND.

SEE COLOR AND APPRECIATE COLOR.

YOU ALSO TALK ABOUT, IN ONE OF THE CHAPTERS, ONE OF THE CHAPTERS IS CAPTIONED, 'HOW TO BE AN ALLY.'

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

AGAIN, I SAY, INTENTION WITHOUT DIRECTION IS MEANINGLESS.

JACK, SO MANY PEOPLE, AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD, THEY MESSAGED ME, THEY SAY, EMANUEL I WANT TO HELP.

EMANUEL, I'M HERE FOR YOU, EMANUEL, WHAT CAN I DO?

SEE, JACK, THEY WANTED TO BE AN ALLY, BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO BE AN ALLY.

AND I WANTED TO EDUCATE MY WHITE BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND ALL THOSE WHO WANT TO GET INTO THIS FIGHT FOR EQUALITY, WHICH WILL GREATLY IMPROVE THIS GREAT NATION.

I WANT TO EDUCATE THEM ON THE HOW TO BE.

YOU GOT TO SHOW UP DECISIVELY, PROMPTLY AND YOU HAVE TO BE ACCURATE IN YOUR SPEECH WHEN YOU DO SHOW UP.

SO, IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO WANT TO BE AN ALLY, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE GREAT INTENTIONS.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THOSE INTENTIONS?

I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION THAT YOU HAD STARTED THIS VIDEO SERIES SHORTLY AFTER THAT TRAGIC AND HORRIFIC DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD.

AND HOW THIS -- THE BOOK HAS FLOWN, IF YOU WILL, FROM THAT.

LET ME GO BACK TO THE VIDEO SERIES AND ASK YOU, THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS YOU'RE DOING.

YOU ARE A HOST AND AN ANALYST WITH FOX SPORTS, YOU DO MANY THINGS.

WHAT MADE YOU SAY, THIS IS WHAT I HAVE TO DO NOW, RIGHT TIME AND PLACE TO CREATE THESE VIDEOS AND HAVE THE UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS.

I THINK IT WAS MY FORM OF GRIEF.

I THINK -- I'VE NEVER SAID THAT BEFORE, BUT NOW THAT, FOR THE FIRST TIME, I'VE -- IT'S DAWNED ON ME JUST NOW THAT EVERY -- SOME PEOPLE WERE CRYING, SOME PEOPLE WERE SCREAMING, SOME PEOPLE WERE QUIET, SOME PEOPLE WERE DISTRAUGHT.

I WAS A LITTLE BIT OF ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

BUT I KNEW I HAD TO SPEAK.

I HAD TO GET MY FEELINGS OUT THERE.

JACK, I'M NOT THE TYPE OF PERSON WHO LIKES TO COMPLAIN, WHETHER IT IS JUSTIFIED AND DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.

AND SO WHILE SO MANY OF MY BLACK BROTHERS AND SISTERS WERE JUSTIFIABLY MARCHING AND PROTESTING AND SEEKING JUSTICE IN DIFFERENT FORMS, I REALIZED THAT MY VOICE IS MY SWORD.

AND SO, I'M GOING TO FIGHT FOR JUSTICE THE WAY I KNOW HOW.

WERE YOU SURPRISED BY THAT EXTRAORDINARY REACTION, AS YOU SAID, MILLIONS OF YOUTH.

RIGHT NOW, I THINK LAST TIME I LOOKED, IT WAS MORE THAN 70 MILLION VIEWS OF THIS.

AND AGAIN, IF YOU WATCH IT, YOU MAKE CERTAIN TO BRING ON PEOPLE AND CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE UNCOMFORTABLE.

WERE YOU SURPRISED AT SUCH A POSITIVE REACTION TO IT?

YEAH.

YOU CAN'T NOT BE SURPRISED WHEN ONE EPISODE OF JUST ME SITTING IN AN ALL-WHITE ROOM GETS 25 MILLION VIEWS IN FOUR DAYS.

PUT THIS IN CONTEXT.

I PLAYED IN THE NFL, BUT I WASN'T, LIKE, A HALL OF FAMER.

IT'S NOT LIKE I'M MICHAEL STRAHAN, LIKE, LET'S MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT THAT.

LET'S CATEGORIZE ME PROPERLY IN MY NFL CAREER.

WHILE I KNEW IT WAS A GREAT CONCEPT, I DIDN'T KNOW THE RECEPTION WOULD BE SO RADICAL.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I WOULD GET CALLS FROM PEOPLE LIKE MATTHEW McCONAUGHEY WITH NO CALLER I.

NU D. NUMBERS, THAT OPRAH WOULD CALL ME, THAT THE COMMISSIONER OF THE NFL COULD CALL ME, I HAD NO IDEA IT WOULD LEAD TO THIS.

LAST QUESTION FOR YOU.

AND AGAIN, IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU SAY IN THE BOOK THAT STRUCK ME, AND YOU SAID THAT -- THIS MIGHT BE SURPRISING FOR PEOPLE.

YOU SAY ENDING RACISM IS NOT A FINISH LINE, RIGHT?

RATHER, IT'S A ROAD WE'LL TRAVEL.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

YEAH.

IN SPORTS, YOU HAVE AN OBJECTIVE TO SCORE A TOUCHDOWN IN FOOTBALL.

YOU CROSS THE THICK, WHITE LINE, YOU SCORE A TOUCHDOWN, YOU'RE GOOD.

IN SOCCER, YOU CROSS THE THRESHOLD, GOAL.

IN TRACK AND FIELD, YOU CROSS THE 100-METER MARKER, THE FINISH LINE, YOU KNOW THERE IS AN END POINT.

BUT I REALIZE WITH RACIAL RECONCILIATION, JACK, THERE ISN'T SOME SORT OF END POINT THAT WE KNOW WE WILL GET TO.

SO, WE MUST CONTINUE TO TRAVEL THE ROAD TOGETHER.

WE WON'T LOOK UP IN 30 DAYS FROM NOW AND SAY, WE DID IT!

WE SOLVED RACISM!

THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

BUT WHAT WE CAN LOOK UP AND SAY IS, WE'RE DOING IT.

WE'RE SOLVING IT TOGETHER.

WE'RE ON THAT ROAD, RIGHT?

ONCE AGAIN, THE BOOK IS TITLED 'UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS WITH A BLACK MAN.'

EMANUEL ACHO, IT IS A MARVELOUS BOOK, IT IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT AND THOUGHTFUL AND COMPELLING DIRECTION FOR US TO FOLLOW.

AS HAVE BEEN YOUR VIDEO SERIES.

SO, EMANUEL, PLEASURE, MAN.

BE WELL AND THANK YOU SO MUCH.

LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING AGAIN WITH YOU.

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