MetroFocus: July 21, 2021

Encore: November 12, 2021

YOUTH SPEAK OUT ON WHY THEY MIGHT CHOOSE TO CARRY A GUN

As of mid-June, New York City reported more than 700 shooting victims, over the past year. It is the highest number since 2002. Governor Cuomo has responded by declaring the first in the nation gun violence disaster emergency. But the police who are struggling to stem the rise of shootings are now confronting a deep seated sub-culture that glorifies guns. Tonight we’ll take you inside that culture with researchers who interviewed hundreds of young people in New York City neighborhoods with high rates of gun violence to find out why they might choose to carry a gun. The Center For Court Innovation’s Elise White and Basaime Spate join us for this very up front, honest and eye opening conversation.

TRANSCRIPT

> THIS IS 'METROFOCUS' WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

> 'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER.

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD.

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY.

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON.

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS.'

I'M JENNA FLANNIGAN.

WITH GUN VIOLENCE CONTINUING TO RISE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, RESEARCHERS ARE ATTEMPTING TO UNDERSTAND WHY GUNS ARE SO POPULAR WITH YOUNG PEOPLE.

A SURVEY FOR THE CENTER FOR COURT INNOVATION INTERVIEWED HUNDREDS OF YOUNG PEOPLE IN NEW YORK CITY NEIGHBORHOODS WITH HIGH RATES OF GUN VIOLENCE AND ASKED THEM WHY THEY MIGHT CHOOSE TO CARRY A GUN.

THE RESEARCHERS HOPED THAT THEIR FINDINGS CAN GIVE US MORE INSIGHT INTO WHAT ATTRACTS YOUNG PEOPLE TO THESE DANGEROUS WEAPONS WHICH COULD, IN TURN, LEAD US TO SOLUTIONS THAT MIGHT REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE THAT COULD ACTUALLY WORK.

JOINING ME NOW FROM THE CENTER FOR COURT INNOVATION ARE TWO OF THE CO-AUTHORS OF THE SURVEY.

DEPUTY RESEARCH DIRECTOR ELISE WHITE.

WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS.'

THANK YOU.

GREAT TO BE HERE.

AND COMMUNITY-BASED RESEARCH COORDINATOR FAITH.

WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS.'

THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE IT.

WE ARE SO GLAD TO HAVE YOU BOTH HERE CONSIDERING THE WORK THAT YOU DID.

IT SEEMS LIKE AN OBVIOUS QUESTION TO HAVE ASKED AND THIS SEEMS LIKE A FIRST-TIME SURVEY.

SO I'M WONDERING, WHAT WERE THE PROCESSES OF CREATING SOMETHING LIKE THIS THAT SEEMS PRETTY OBVIOUS?

SO A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT FOR YOUR VIEWERS.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY STOPPED FUNDING GUN VIOLENCE RESEARCH IN THE MID-1990s, AND SO UNLIKE OTHER PUBLIC HEALTH CRISES, CANCER, OTHER THINGS THAT ARE CAUSING DEATHS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, GUN VIOLENCE IS RELATIVELY LAGGING IN THAT REGARD.

THE OTHER PIECE THAT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW IS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE AS A PROBLEM IT'S ACTUALLY A HANDFUL OF DIFFERENT PROBLEMS AND THEY SORT OF OVERLAP AND SORT OF DON'T.

SO WE HAVE MASS SHOOTINGS WHICH ARE IN THE NEWS A LOT, AND WE HAVE DOMESTIC FAMILY-BASED SHOOTINGS, WE HAVE SUICIDE, WE HAVE POLICE SHOOTINGS AND THEN WE HAVE URBAN SHOOTINGS.

THESE ARE ALL AREAS THAT HAVE DIFFERENT CULTURAL FACTORS THAT LEAD INTO THEM.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT DRIVERS AND THERE ARE ACTUALLY DIFFERENT WEAPONS THAT ARE INVOLVED AND SO WHEN WE'RE COMING UP WITH INTERVENTIONS OR POLICY SOLUTIONS TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF GUN VIOLENCE, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE IMPERICAL RESEARCH IN EACH OF THESE AREAS THAT DRIVE THE NETWORK.

SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE SUCH AN UNUSUAL AND FIRST STUDY OF ITS KIND IS BECAUSE OF THE RESEARCH.

SO WHEN WE PUT IT TOGETHER, WHAT WE REALLY WANTED TO DO WAS LOOK AT 16 TO 24-YEAR-OLDS BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THAT IS IN URBAN SETTINGS THAT THAT'S THE AGE USUALLY WHEN GUN VIOLENCE AND GUN USE PEAKS AND THEN STARTS TO DECLINE.

WE WANTED TO LOOK AT THE WIDE VARIETY OF YOUNG PEOPLE ACROSS THE CITY OF NEW YORK BECAUSE HISTORICALLY THE RESEARCH THAT HAS BEEN DONE ON URBAN GUN USE PULLS SAMPLES FROM SCHOOLS OR SETTINGS AND THOSE ARE LIMITED AND THOSE ARE BIASSED SAMPLES AND SO WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO GENERALIZE IT OUT WE ARE NOT ABLE TO DO THAT SO EFFECTIVELY.

SO WE WANTED TO GET OUT AND OUR TEAM, WE HAVE AN AMAZING TEAM WITH A BIG LIST AND HE WAS PART OF THE FIELD WORK AT EACH STEP.

OF COURSE, I'D LOVE TO HEAR WHAT THAT FIELD WORK WAS LIKE AND YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS ALSO PERSONAL TO YOU.

DEFINITELY.

I GREW UP IN THAT LIFE.

I LOST MY FATHER AND TWO OF MY BROTHERS TO GUNS.

IT DEFINITELY GOT ME INTO THIS WORK.

TO GET THIS PARTICULAR WORK DONE IT TOOK A SOLID TEAM AND I WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO ANGELICA CAMACHO AND DENNIS EVANS BECAUSE WITHOUT THEM IT COULDN'T BE DONE WITH THE EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE THEY BROUGHT TO THIS RESEARCH.

THIS RESEARCH, IT HAD NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE ESPECIALLY ON THE BIG DAY WITH THE BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES.

SO IT GAVE US A CHANCE TO CONTROL THE NARRATIVES AND INSTEAD OF SOMEONE ELSE TELLING OUR STORIES AND GIVING SOLUTIONS BASED ON WHAT THEY THOUGHT IT WAS AND IT WAS A POWERFUL DAY.

PART OF WHAT SEPARATES THIS WORK FROM OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE IS WHEN WE STARTED IT WAS A MUCH MORE TRADITIONAL RESEARCH DESIGN.

SO THERE WERE RESEARCHERS AND GRADUATE STUDENTS AND PEOPLE THAT WERE IN THE RESEARCH FIELD WHO WERE LESS ADVANCED THAN ONE CAREER THAT WOULD BE GOING OUT IN THIS INTERVIEW.

THROUGH EXPERIENCE AND A LOT OF HARD LESSONS WE FELT THAT THAT WAS JUST NOT GOING TO -- THEY WERE AREN'T ABLE TO CONNECT WITH THE POPULATION THAT WE WERE TRYING TO REACH AND THEY ALSO WEREN'T GETTING RESPONSES THAT WERE HONEST OR BASED ON PEOPLE WITH THEIR REALITIES.

I AGREE.

SO WE SHIFTED AND IT CAME ON THE TEAM AND IMMEDIATELY ROSE TO THE TOP END OF THE VARIETY IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND WHAT WE NEEDED WAS A MUCH MORE PARTICIPATORY APPROACH MEANING THAT THEY KNOW THEY CAN CONNECT PARTICIPANTS IN THAT WAY.

I SENSE WHAT PEOPLE ARE REAL HE HUNGRY FOR AND IF YOU CAN SPEAK TO THIS, IS WHAT WERE THE FINDINGS.

WHAT IS DRIVING THIS?

FOR A PERSON, PERHAPS, WHO IS AT HOME WATCHING THIS PROGRAM ON PUBLIC OF IT, ET CETERA, THEY MIGHT WONDER OR NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS DRIVING ALL OF THIS, WHAT IS CAUSING THAT?

A LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE HAVE CONVERSATIONS AROUND THE ISSUE THAT ALWAYS COMES UP.

HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT ADDRESSING THIS?

WHAT DID YOUR RESEARCH FIND?

WE FELT THAT OVERALL THE BIG PICTURE IS SYSTEMATIC OPPRESSION, RIGHT?

AND THEN WITH THE PANDEMIC TAKING PLACE AND ALL OF THAT, IT JUST ADDED ON TOP OF THE THINGS THAT THAT WAS ALREADY THERE, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LACK OF RESOURCES, LACK OF PLACES TO GO, LACK OF EDUCATION AND LACK OF FAMILY SUPPORT.

SO WHAT WE HAD FOUND WAS THAT THESE YOUNG MEN, THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS, BUT THEY WAS FORCED TO BE A PART OF THIS, SO JUST IN THE ASPECT OF THE GAME, RIGHT?

SO JUST LOOKING FOR THAT FAMILY SUPPORT AND LOOKING FOR THAT LOVE AND PROTECTION.

WHEN WE SPEAK ABOUT THE PROTECTION, THIS IS THE PRIMARY REASON WHY YOU HAD USED GUN, RIGHT?

SO JUST PROTECTION FROM POLICE AND PROTECTION FROM THE THINGS THAT WERE GOING ON IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO IT WAS -- I WOULD SAY AS MANY VARIABLES THAT CAUSED THESE THINGS, BUT OUR RESEARCH HAS SHOWN JUST THAT MAINLY THAT IN THE GAME, IT WAS 89% OF OUR -- 88% OF THEM GOT PART OF THIS GAME AND 60% ARE STILL ACTIVE AND THE ULTIMATE PRIMARY REASON IS THE FULL BODY AND EMOTIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDING MATERIEL SUPPORT SUCH AS MONEY, ACCESS TO MAKING MONEY, FOOD AND HOUSING, RIGHT?

WHAT WE HAD DISCOVERED THAT ALL THESE THINGS TIES INTO THE EFFECT OF SYSTEMATIC OPPRESSION, HAVING ACCESS DENIED TO THESE YOUNG MEN AND THEN THE LACK OF PARENTAL SUPPORT BECAUSE IF WE KNOW ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THINGS WE KNOW WITH BLACK AND BROWN FAMILIES HOW THAT IS BROKEN DOWN, RIGHT?

A BLACK MAN GETTING ARRESTED AND TAKEN AWAY FROM THEIR HOMES AND THEN THE MOTHER HAS TO WORK AND TRYING TO SUPPORT THAT AND THEN YOU HAVE THESE YOUNG MEN THAT SEES THAT AND WANTS TO HELP THEIR MOTHER IN A SENSE OR WANTS TO HAVE THEIR FAMILY AND TAKES ON THE RULES OF ONLY WHAT THEY KNOW AND ONLY WHAT'S PROVIDED WITH SELLING DRUGS AND IT'S THE QUICKEST WAY TO GET MONEY AND BE ABLE TO HELP MOM OR HELP BROTHER AND SISTER.

AS WHEN THEY GO OUT THERE, THEY HAVE TO PICK UP THE GUNS BECAUSE IT'S A SYSTEM PROTECTION BECAUSE THEY DENIED PROTECTION AND THEY HAVE POLICE THAT COME IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT ARE CLOSE TO PROVIDING THINGS, BUT THEY DON'T, RIGHT?

AND THEY'RE COMING TO ANTAGONIZE THESE YOUNG MEN AND PUT MORE PRESSURE ON THEM.

SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.

I'M WONDERING JUST VERY QUICKLY THAT YOU CAN EXPLAIN MORE BECAUSE SOMETIMES WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THESE ISSUES PEOPLE WILL SAY THAT THEY WEREN'T NECESSARILY PROBLEMS PARTICULARLY IN BLACK AND BRUN COMMUNITIES BEFORE, THAT YOU HAVE A GENERATION NOW THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE RESPECT FOR AUTHORITY OR THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE SAME WORK ETHIC THAT THEIR PARENTS' GENERATION DID.

THESE ARE CRITICISMS THAT HAVE BEEN LEVELED WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE GUN VIOLENCE ISSUE NOW AND I'M WONDERING IF THROUGH YOUR RESEARCH YOU WERE ABLE TO PINPOINT OR SOMETHING SOME SORT OF BREAKING POINT OR SOMETHING THAT LED TO ALL OF THIS OR WAS THIS PERHAPS LIKE A BOILING WHERE SOMETHING JUST KEPT GETTING HOTTER AND HOTTER AND MORE INTENSE AND MORE INTENSE.

HOW DO YOU SEE THAT?

LET ME THROW A COUPLE OF THESE, YOUNG PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN THE CONTEXT OF REALLY INTENSE VICTIMIZATION AND IF THEY'RE ON NECESSARILY IT MAY ALSO BE FAMILY MEMBER OR FRIENDS.

SO 81% OF OUR SAMPLE HAD BEEN SHOT OR SHOT AT.

88% HAD SEEN A FAMILY MEMBER OR FRIEND SHOT.

70% HAD WITNESSED A SHOOTING.

67% HAD BEEN ATTACKED BY A DIFFERENT WEAPON.

SO THESE ARE VERY, VERY HIGH RATES OF VICTIMIZATION SO THERE'S A LOT OF TRAUMA THAT THESE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE LIVING WITH.

THAT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND AS A CONTEXTUAL FACTOR, KIND OF TO YOUR POINT, RIGHT?

SO -- AND WE KNOW WHEN PEOPLE LIVE IN TRAUMATICEN ENVIRONMEN AND THEY HAVE PTSD AND THEY OFTEN HAVE LOWER ABILITY TO CONTROL EMOTIONS, AND SO WHEN THERE ARE DISPUTES WHETHER THEY BE WITH OTHER YOUNG PEOPLE OR THE POLICE, IT JUST MEANS THAT THE STAKES ARE HIGHER AND THE STAKES ARE HIGHER AND THEY HAVE LESS, SOMETIMES, IT DEPENDS ON THE PERSON AND THEY HAVE LESS ABILITY TO MANAGE THE EMOTIONAL REACTION.

SO IT CAN BE VERY VOLATILE.

SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CONTEXTUAL FACTS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SYSTEMIC OPPRESSION.

WHEN WE HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE CONSISTENTLY PUSHED OUT OF SCHOOL ENVIRONMENTS AND THEY COULD RECEIVE SERVICES THAT CAN HELP AND THAT IS AN ENTRY POINT TO LEARNING DISABILITIES DIAGNOSED BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE THINGS ARE RETREATABLE OR EASILY MANAGED ONCE THE RIGHT SERVICES ARE PUT IN PLACE.

SO WHEN THEY'RE PUSHED OUT OF SCHOOL IN A LEARNING ENVIRONMENT AND THEN THEY'RE IN A STREET CONTEXT AS YOU MENTIONED FOR SURVIVAL.

SURVIVAL FOR THE FAMILY AND THEMSELVES THEY NEED TO EAT, BECAUSE OF POLICE PRESENCE THEY HAVE BEEN PULLED INTO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AS A MUCH, MUCH HIGHER THAN OTHER GENERATIONS.

FOR US IN PARTICULAR THEY'RE GROWING UP IN THE SHADOW OF STOP AND FRISK.

THEY'RE GROWING UP IN GENERATIONAL NOW MASS INCARCERATION.

SOME OF THE NUMBERS ARE -- W88% AND THESE AREN'T HIGH-LEVEL CRIMINALS AND GUN POSSESSION CHARGES AND EVEN ROBBERIES.

JUMP IN IN THE TURN STYLE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

ALSO, IT CREATES A GENERALIZED FEAR, RIGHT?

THAT THEY'RE CONSTANTLY LIVING AT AND PUT ON A MICROSCALE AND A LOCALIZED FEAR FROM THE YOUTH AND DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ENGAGE FROM THAT STANDPOINT OF BEING TRAUMATIZED OR FROM FEAR.

OR EVEN BEING FEAR OR A SENSE OF NOT HAVING SAFETY FROM POLICE AND THEY ARE CONSTANTLY ANTAGONIZING OR CONSTANTLY RIDING AROUND THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND BEING TARGETED.

I DON'T WANT TO, I GUESS, BELABOR THE POINT TOO MUCH, BUT D I DO WANT TO PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WHEN YOU WERE MENTIONING PEOPLE GETTING ARRESTED FOR SOMETHING AS MINOR AS JUMPING A TURNSTYLE, THERE IS A PUSHBACK OF WELL, JUST DON'T DO THAT.

WHEN YOU INTERACT WITH THE POLICE, JUST COMPLY AND YOU WON'T HAVE THESE PROBLEMS.

I ALSO WANT TO COMPOUND THAT WITH THE OTHER QUESTIONS ASKED THAT AMERICA LOVES, SAY A BREAKTHROUGH STORY, AND SO I'M SURE WITH EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, MOST PEOPLE CAN PROBABLY POINT OUT AN INDIVIDUAL OR TWO WHO HAD ALL OF THESE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES AND THEY STILL MADE IT.

YES.

AMERICA DOES LOVE THE BREAKOUT STORY AND WE NEVER WANT TO USE THE EXCEPTION TO PROVE THE FACT.

WE WANT TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE TRENDS ACROSS.

WHERE ARE WE FINDING THE MAJORITY OF NUMBERS COALESCING?

SO, YES, ABSOLUTELY.

THERE ARE LOW LEVEL OFFENSES AND PEOPLE ARE COMMITTING THEM IN SOME CASES AND IN SOME CASES THEY AREN'T AND SO WHAT WE DID ALSO HEAR PRETTY CONSISTENTLY WERE STORIES OF THE POLICE INTENTIONALLY ANTAGONIZING AND COMING OUT TO THE COMMUNITY ROLLING SLOWLY PAST YOUNG PEOPLE AND THEN THROWING FOOD LIKE THROWING THEIR FOOD AT THEM AND DUMPING WATER ON THE GRILL WHEN IN THE MIDDLE OF A COOKOUT.

SO IT'S EASY, I THINK, ESPECIALLY SOMEONE LIKE ME.

THIS IS NOT MY EXPERIENCE AND I'M LOOKING AT IT FROM THE OUTSIDE LIKE THIS SHOULDN'T HAPPEN OR IF THEY REALLY WANTED TO GET ALONG OR THEY REALLY WANTED TO WORK THINGS OUT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

THEY JUST, YOU KNOW.

WHAT WE HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN, IT'S REALLY A VERY DIFFERENT DYNAMIC AND CONTEXT FOR ENGAGING WITH THE POLICE AND ONE THAT BASICALLY PUTS PEOPLE IN A DOUBLEBIND SITUATION.

SO THEY'RE OUTSIDE MAKING MONEY AND THE ONLY WAY THAT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO IT AND THEN THEY'RE CARRYING WEAPONS BECAUSE IT PUTS THEM AT RISK WITH OTHER YOUNG PEOPLE.

AT THE SAME TIME, THEY PROCEED AND THEY LIVE UNDER A FEELING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF STRENGTH FROM THE POLICE.

IN THE CONTEXT OF THAT FEAR.

FEAR FROM THE STATE AND THEY'RE CARRYING GUNS TO INCREASE THEIR SENSE OF SAFETY.

AND WHEN THEY DO THAT, THAT PUTS THEM AT GREATER RISK.

JUST THE HOPPING OF THE TURNSTYLE AND WE JUST DON'T DO THAT AND FROM THAT POINT WITH THE FINANCIAL POINT THAT WE'RE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR YOUR CHILDREN AND NEPHEWS AND WHAT NOT, SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THAT ROUTE AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES, WE'RE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY WE'RE SO FINANCIALLY BEHIND, RIGHT?

AND HOW MUCH IS IT FOR A MONTHLY METRO CARD?

IT GOES UP EVERY YEAR LIKE $135.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT AND FINANCIALLY AND THE SITUATION THAT THEIR MOTHER AND FATHER ARE AT, IS THAT ACCEPTABLE OR CAN WE SAY THAT FROM THAT POINT OF JUST DON'T DO THAT OR FROM THE POINT OF JUST COMPLY AND THESE THINGS WON'T HAPPEN.

HOW CAN I COMPLY WHEN I AM CONSTANTLY BEING TARGETED.

WHEN THEY'RE SLOW RIDING AROUND AND LOOKING EXACTLY LIKE ME AND THEN HAVING ME WONDER IF I'M DOING SOMETHING CRIMINALLY WRONG?

ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME AS A CRIMINAL RIGHT NOW AS I'M STANDING ON MY BLOCK.

SO WHEN YOU DO HOP OUT, HOW COULD I COMPLY WITH THE WITNESS WITH YOUR DISRESPECT AND YOU'RE ANTAGONIZING AND YOU'RE JUST CONSTANTLY ON ME FOR NO REASON AND YOU ASKED ME BY NAME AND YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN THE CHANCE TO GET TO KNOW ME FROM THAT STANDPOINT.

SO WHEN YOU DO HOP OUT OR WHAT NOT, YOU'RE GOING TO GET DISRESPECT BECAUSE THE ONLY WITNESS YOU DISRESPECT, NOT JUST ME, BUT OTHER WITNESSES AROUND ME AND THEN IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT YOU WERE SAYING BEFORE THAT -- AFTER THAT.

BASICALLY, AFTER THAT I WAS ALSO SAYING THAT IN ADDITION TO COMPLY, THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A MINUTE AGO THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE SAYING, THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO GROW UP IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES AND THEY SUCCEED IN AMERICA OR BY NEW YORK STANDARDS.

SO IF THEY CAN DO IT, WHY CAN'T ANYBODY ELSE?

THAT ALSO SEEMS TO BE A COUNTERPOINT.

THEN WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE SUPPORT SYSTEM THAT THAT PERSON HAS TO BE ABLE TO GO THAT ROUTE AND THEN THE CAPABILITIES OF THAT INDIVIDUAL?

IS HOO IN THE SAME SPACE THAT HE CAN BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH THESE PLACES WHERE HE NEEDS TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND BE THE BREAKOUT STORY.

JUST FOR EXAMPLE, JUST ME GROWING UP IN THE FOSTER SYSTEM AND GOING AROUND AND ENJOYING THINGS AND WHAT NOT, AND THE OVERALL THING FOR ME WAS I HAD SUPPORT IN THOSE THINGS SUCH AS GOING INTO VIOLENCE AND THE PEOPLE THAT WORK THERE AND THIS IS MY EXPERIENCE AND THIS IS MY LIFE AND WHAT NOT, AND I DON'T WANT OTHER PEOPLE OR MY CHILDREN GROWING UP IN THIS DEMOGRAPHIC AND STARING AT THESE THINGS.

SO IT TAKES A DRIVE AND IT TAKES SUPPORT, AND I MEAN ULTIMATE SUPPORT FROM MULTIPLE INDIVIDUALS FOR THAT PURPOSE TO BE ABLE TO GO THERE AND THAT PERSON NEEDS TO FEEL THAT YOU ARE THERE SUPPORTING THEM BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY EXPERIENCE AND ONLY PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE SUPPORTING THEM AND LOVING THEM AND ENCOURAGING THEM TO BE THERE AND HAVE A SUCCESSFUL LIFE AND THEY DON'T HAVE THAT.

ANOTHER POINT AND ANOTHER VARIABLE OF SYSTEMATIC OPPRESSION.

OF COURSE.

OF COURSE.

OH, MY GOD, I COULD CONTINUE WITH QUESTIONS JUST ABOUT THE OTHER RESEARCH, BUT I DO WANT TO PIVOT A LITTLE BIT WITH THE TIME WE HAVE LEFT, TOO, AND THEN SOLUTIONS.

WE'VE SEEN OVER THE PAST YEAR, A LOT OF PROTESTS IN THE STREETS AND PEOPLE CALLING FOR DEFUNDING AND COMPLETELY REMOVING POLICE FROM ESPECIALLY COMMUNITIES OF COLOR THAT ARE LOW INCOME, BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE'VE ALSO HEARD FROM SOME OF THE COMMUNITY ACTIVISTS FROM THOSE COMMUNITIES WHO ARE SAYING NO, STOP.

WE WOULD LIKE POLICE PROTECTION.

WE JUST NEED IT TO COME IN A DIFFERENT FORM.

BASED ON YOUR RESEARCH, THEN, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THAT?

WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT WHAT'S NEEDED?

BASED ON WHAT I HAVE IN MY RESEARCH AND MY CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU, POLICE IS THE PROBLEM.

WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COMMUNITY SAFETY, RIGHT?

. FOR ME WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SAFETY STRATEGIES OUTSIDE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SO FOR US IT'S, LIKE, WHEN WE HAD EXAMPLES OF THESE CREATING SAFE SPACES WHERE THESE INDIVIDUALS CAN HAVE A SAFE SPACE AND TALK ABOUT THESE ISSUES AND TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS THAT'S HAPPENED IN THEIR COMMUNITY AND HOW TO BRING THAT TOGETHER FOR THEMSELVES, AND NOT BRINGING IN OUTSIDE PARTS BECAUSE THE HISTORY OF POLICE AND THE HISTORY OF HOW THEY COME IN THESE COMMUNITIES AND THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND TO HAVE THE STANDPOINT WITH THAT PROTECTION.

SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT, IT'S LIKE, LET THAT COMMUNITY CREATE A SAFE SPACE SO THAT COMMUNITY CAN COME IN, SUCH AS GANG LEADERS AND SUCH AS THE CHURCH MEMBERS AND SUCH AS THE STORE PEOPLE AND HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT SAFETY LOOKS LIKE FOR THAT COMMUNITY.

JUST TO SPEAK ABOUT WHAT HE SAID.

OUR PARTICIPANTS WANTED ACCOUNTABILITY AND THEY WANTED SAFETY.

THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE AT ALL, I THINK, IN TERMS OF RECOMMENDATION BECAUSE OF THE LOW LEVELS OF TRUST AND THE LOW LEVELS OF CONFIDENCE, AND POLICE ARE ADVOCATING AREAS TO THINK ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY OUTSIDE OF THAT REALM AND WE ALSO RECOMMEND JOB DEVELOPMENT AND JOB TRAINING PROGRAMS THAT ARE VERY SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WITH JUVENILE JUSTICE INVOLVEMENT AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE INVOLVEMENT BECAUSE THEIR RECORD, THEIR EXPERIENCE AND NEEDS ARE VERY SPECIFIC, AND THEY NEED SUPPORT AND SERVICES THAT CAN REACH BEYOND WHAT ARE TYPICALLY PART OF JOB TRAINING PROGRAMS.

AND THEY HAVE AGAIN, THEY WANT JOBS AND THEY JUST NEED SOME SUPPORT, AND THEY WANT CHANNELS INTO THOSE JOBS.

WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JOBS WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT JOBS -- I WAS ABOUT TO ASK THAT.

THERE WAS A LABOR SHORTAGE NOW.

WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT OUR CAREER JOB, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN THEY CAN MAKE A WELL LIVING FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILY AND THEIR CHILDREN, SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE GOVERNOR IN THESE 21,000 JOBS AND WHICH JOBS DO WE TALK ABOUT AND ARE WE JUST PUTTING A BAND-AID ON THIS AND YES, WE GAVE THIS SUBSET COMMUNITY AND THE JOBS AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JOBS THAT CAN REALLY THRIVE IN AND REALLY CREATE GENERATIONAL WEALTH, RIGHT?

IN ADDITION TO THIS WE RECOMMEND SERVICES TO YOUNG PEOPLE AND A LOT OF COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS AND THE DOOR IS ALWAYS OPEN.

AS WE TALKED ABOUT, AND THE INSTITUTIONS OF SORT OF THE SYSTEM IN GENERAL AND THEY HAVE A HARD TIME JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR EXPERIENCE DIFFERENTIATING ARE YOU REALLY A FRIEND?

ARE YOU AN ALLY?

CAN I TRUST YOU OR I CAN NOT?

COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS CAN MAKE AN INTERVENTION AND JUST, LIKE, PIVOTS AND SEE A BIG IMPACT, AND I WOULD SAY ENGAGING THESE GANG LEADERS BECAUSE THEY'RE WILLING TO OPEN UP.

WE TALK ABOUT THE OVERALL EXISTENCE IS FOR COMMUNITY SAFETY AND THAT'S WHY IT WAS CREATED IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF PROTECTION FROM GOVERNMENTS OR THE LOCALIZED STATE GOVERNMENT.

SO ENGAGING MEMBERS IS A KEY POINT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT COMMUNITY SERVICES AND SAFETY.

AND AGAIN, THROUGH OUR RESEARCH WE'RE WILLING TO SIT DOWN AND TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS AND DISCUSS THESE ISSUES AND A SENSE OF TRUST AND ARE YOU WILLING TO GO THAT ROUTE AND SIT DOWN AND FIND A TRUE SOLUTION, SO THE SAFETY AND THE COMMUNITY SAFETY OR PUBLIC SAFETY.

I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE COME TO THE END OF OUR TIME TOGETHER BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY MORE QUESTIONS I'D LOVE TO ASK, SO I WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION.

FOR NOW I WOULD LIKE TO THANK TWO PEOPLE FOR THE CENTER FOR COURT INNOVATION AND CO-AUTHORS OF THE SURVEY ON GUN VIOLENCE AND THAT IS DEPUTY RESEARCH DIRECTOR ELISE WHITE AND COMMUNITY-BASED RESEARCH COORDINATOR.

THANK YOU BOTH SO, SO VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHT AND FOR EVEN DOING THIS SURVEY TO GET THIS SURVEY THAT WE'RE ALL TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.

THANK YOU.

ABSOLUTELY.

♪ ♪ ♪

> 'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER.

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD.

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY.

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON.

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

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