MetroFocus: July 15, 2020

> THIS IS 'METROFOCUS' WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

FUNDING FOR 'CHASING THE DREAM' IS PROVIDED BY THE JPB FOUNDATION.

ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR 'CHASING THE DREAM' IS PROVIDED BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS.'

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

IT'S A SHOCKING AND ALL-TOO-REAL REMINDER OF THE RACIAL DISPARITIES THAT EXIST IN OUR SOCIETY.

BLACK WOMEN IN NEW YORK CITY ARE EXPONENTIALLY MORE LIKELY TO DIE FROM PREGNANCY-RELATED COMPLICATIONS THAN WHITE WOMEN.

THIS DISTURBING REALITY IS DRAWING RENEWED SCRUTINY AMID THE GEORGE FLOYD PROTESTS AND FOLLOWING THE DEATH OF A YOUNG BLACK MOTHER TO BE WASHINGTON WHO DIED DURING CHILDBIRTH IN A BROOKLYN HOSPITAL.

WHILE HER NEWBORN SURVIVED, ADVOCATES ARE SAYING HER PASSING UNDERSCORES JUST HOW FREQUENTLY PREGNANT BLACK WOMEN LOSE THEIR LIVES IN DELIVERY ROOMS EVERY DAY.

WHAT EXACTLY NEEDS TO BE DONE TO REVERSE THESE DEADLY STATISTICS AND ENSURE EQUAL PRE AND POSTNATAL CARE FOR ALL PREGNANT NEW YORKERS AND THEIR BABIES?

TONIGHT'S GUEST HAS MADE THIS MISSION HER LIFE'S WORK.

CHANEL PORSCHE ALBERT IS THE FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF ANCIENT SONG DOULA SERVICES WHICH PROVIDES SUPPORT AND CARE FOR UNDERSERVED COMMUNITIES.

SHE'S ALSO AN ADVOCATE FOR REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH AND A COMMISSIONER FOR THE CITY'S COMMISSION ON GENDER EQUITY.

THIS IS PART OF OUR 'CHASING THE DREAM' INITIATIVE ON POVERTY AND OPPORTUNITY IN AMERICA.

CHANEL, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

ABSOLUTELY.

FIRST, FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T I GUESS GONE THROUGH THE EXPERIENCE OF PREGNANCY AND CHILDBIRTH, WHAT IS A DOULA?

WHAT ROLE DO YOU PLAY AND HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM A TRADITIONAL OBSTETRICIAN?

SO A DOULA IS SOMEONE WHO PROVIDES EMOTIONAL AND PHYSICAL SUPPORT AS WELL AS -- I WOULD SAY WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT WORKING WITHIN MARGINALIZED OR CENTRIC COMMUNITIES, ADVOCACY AS WELL.

WITHIN THE SPECTRUM OF THE WORK AND THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE SERVE, WE DON'T HAVE THE SPACE TO NOT BE ADVOCATES AND TO ASSIST SOMEONE IN ADVOCATING FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS AND BODILY AUTONOMY IN THE BIRTHING EXPERIENCE.

WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO BE SERVING PARTICULARLY UNDERSERVED COMMUNITIES?

I WANT TO REALLY PAINT A PICTURE FOR PEOPLE ABOUT WHY YOU SPECIFICALLY SERVE THE COMMUNITIES THAT YOU DO.

I GOT INTO THIS WORK BASED ON MY OWN BIRTHING EXPERIENCES.

SO I HAD A WONDERFUL HOME BIRTH WITH MY FIRST CHILD AND TOOK A DOULA TRAINING AND STARTED TO ASSIST INDIVIDUALS IN THEIR BIRTHSING EXPERIENCES.

I NOTICED THE WAYS IN WHICH BLACK AND BROWN BIRTHING PEOPLE WERE TREATED AT BEDSIDE, BEING CRIMINALIZED FOR THEIR CHOICES, HAVING CONDESCENDING TONES, MET WITH HOSTILITY, HAVING THEIR CHILDREN ILLEGALLY DRUG TESTED WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT, USING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES AS A TOOL TO GET SOMEONE TO COMPLY WITH MEDICAL PROCEDURES, AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

THESE ARE JUST SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I WAS STARTING TO SEE WITHIN THIS WORK.

SO IT WAS -- FOR ME IT WAS LIKE, WHEN I GOT INTO THIS, I GOT INTO THIS, I HAD INSURANCE, I HAD PRIVATE INSURANCE.

I WASN'T AT A -- I WASN'T CONSIDERED TO BE LOW INCOME.

HAD ACCESS TO ALL THE THINGS THAT WE THINK ABOUT WHEN WE'RE HAVING A BABY.

WENT TO AN OB INITIALLY AND THEN TRANSFERRED MY CARE TO A MIDWIFE BECAUSE I REALIZED THAT THE CARE I WAS RECEIVING FROM THE OB JUST WASN'T WHAT I NEEDED OR WHAT I WANTED.

THEY WEREN'T SITTING THERE AND LISTENING TO ME.

THEY WEREN'T BEING EMPATHETIC TO UNDERSTANDING THAT I AM A PERSON WHOS THAT A WHOLE COMPLEX IDENTITY THAT'S COMING BEFORE THEM.

WHEN I WENT INTO MIDWIFERY CARE IT WAS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE.

MY CARE WAS CENTERED, MY MIDWIFE WAS ATTENTIVE, ANSWERED ANY QUESTIONS THAT MY PARTNER AND I HAD AND REALLY PROVIDED A SENSE OF REASSURANCE THAT WE NEEDED.

WITHIN DOING THIS WORK, I REALIZED THAT IS NOT HAPPENING TO BLACK AND BROWN BIRTHING PEOPLE.

WE FIND OURSELVES IN THESE SITUATIONS, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE LOW INCOME, WHO MAY BE LIVING IN FOOD APARTHEID AREAS, FIND THEMSELVES WITH HOUSING INSECURITIES, GOING THROUGH A MYRIAD OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

LET'S UNPACK SOME OF THE NUMBERS BECAUSE THERE ARE STATISTICS TO BACK UP SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN EXPRESSING JUST NOW, AND, OF COURSE, THE DEATH RATE WE'RE SEEING FOR BLACK WOMEN IN DELIVERY ROOMS.

JUST TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE NUMBERS.

JUST NATIONALLY BLACK WOMEN, BLACK PREGNANT PEOPLE ARE THREE TO FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE FROM A CHILDBIRTH RELATED COMPLICATION OR SUFFER A NEAR MISS.

A NEAR MISS IS WHERE SOMETHING MAY HAVE COME UP POSTPARTUM, WHERE THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A MEDICAL EMERGENCY, BUT IT DIDN'T ESCALATE ANY FURTHER THAN THAT.

AND WHEN YOU SAY THREE TO FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY, OH, MAYBE THAT'S NOT TOO HIGH.

BUT COMPARED TO OUR WHITE COUNTERPARTS IT'S EXTREMELY HIGH.

WHEN WE LOOK AT NEW YORK CITY, WE ARE EIGHT TO 12 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE OF A CHILDBIRTH RELATED COMPLICATION OR SUFFER A NEAR MISS.

SO NEW YORK CITY IN AND OF ITSELF WHERE WE HAVE TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES.

PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO BE ABLE TO -- SUPPOSED ACCESS TO BE ABLE TO GET THE THINGS THEY NEED WHEN IT'S NECESSARY.

YOU STILL FIND THOSE SAME OUTCOMES.

THAT'S ACROSS EDUCATIONAL LEVELS.

THAT'S ACROSS SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS.

SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT'S AFFECTING LOW INCOME BLACK BIRTHING PEOPLE, BUT IT'S ALSO AFFECTING THOSE WHO ARE IN A HIGHER ECONOMIC BRACKET, SO MIDDLE CLASS AND UPPER MIDDLE CLASS WHO ARE ALSO BEING AFFECTED BY MATERNAL MORTALITY RATE.

WHAT IT'S SHOWING US IS THAT AND WHAT MY COLLEAGUES HAVE SO ELOQUENTLY PUT IN NUMEROUS REPORTS IS THAT IT'S NOT THE FACTS THAT WE ARE BLACK AND WE'RE PREDISPOSED TO A PARTICULAR HEALTH CONCERN.

IT'S DUE TO RACISM AND THE EFFECT OF RACISM.

THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I THINK PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE, ESPECIALLY IN THIS MOMENT WITH THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC.

THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH TALK ABOUT HOW BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE ARE DYING AT A HIGHER RATE, THAT THEY HAVE DIFFERENT PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS, ET CETERA.

BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT THE CULL PRET IS.

AT LEAST THAT'S HOW I'M UNDERSTANDING IT.

CORRECT.

BEFORE YOU EVEN PUT OUT ANY DATA OR STATISTICS, YOU CAN ALREADY -- I WAS INTERVIEWED A COUPLE MONTHS AGO RIGHT WHEN COVID FIRST TOOK OFF.

SOMEONE ASKED ME THE SAME QUESTION, HOW DO YOU THINK BLACK AND BROWN BIRTHING PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY COVID?

I SAID I THINK IT'S GOING TO AFFECT THEM DRAMATICALLY.

WHEN WE START TO THINK ABOUT THE WAYS IN WHICH WE'RE ALREADY TREATED, WHEN YOUR PAIN IS DISMISSED, WHEN YOU'RE -- YOU HAVE DELAYED CARE, MAYBE NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN AND NOT SEEKING OUT CARE, BUT BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO CARE YOU'RE NOT BEING TREATED LIKE A HUMAN BEING.

AND THEY FIND THEMSELVES IN SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE ARE DYING POSTPARTUM.

A LOT OF FOLKS THINK IT'S HAPPENING IN THE LABORING PROCESS.

IT'S ALSO HAPPENING AFTER LABOR WHERE THERE'S NO CONTINUITY OF CARE, WHERE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO SAY, LISTEN, THIS IS HAPPENING TO ME AND HAVE SOMEONE LISTEN TO THEM.

I'M ALSO ON THE MATERNAL MORTALITY REVIEW BOARD FOR NEW YORK CITY.

THERE ARE CASES THAT PRESENT THEMSELVES WHERE PEOPLE COME, THEY PRESENTED THEMSELVES ONCE, TWICE, THREE TIMES, AND IT'S DOCUMENTED, EITHER NO PAIN MEDICATION WAS GIVEN OR BY THE THIRD TIME THE PERSON PRESENTED THEMSELVES, IT'S NOTED THAT THIS PERSON ONLY WANTS PAIN MEDICATION, AND NEVER REALLY ADDRESSING THE ROOT PROBLEM.

THEN THEY COME BACK AGAIN.

THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NO LONGER HERE WITH US.

THAT TELLS ME IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THESE PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS, AND ALSO UNDERSTANDING THESE PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS ARE ALSO SYSTEMIC.

THEY ARE SYSTEMIC BECAUSE OF SYSTEMIC RACISM THAT ILL FILL INTEREST RATES ALL THESE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS.

HAVING THAT AND HAVING A PANDEMIC ORR HEALTH CARE CRISIS THAT'S PRESENTING ITSELF, IT'S GOING TO MAGNIFY AND YOU'RE GOING TO BE PUT OFF TO THE WAYSIDE.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE SEEN AS SOMEONE WHO IS OF THE HIGHEST PRIORITY RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF CARE.

ALREADY -- IF THERE'S ALREADY THESE NOTIONS THAT YOU DON'T FEEL PAIN THE SAME WAY, NOT EXPERIENCING THINGS THE SAME WAY, WHAT MAKES SOMEONE THINK BECAUSE NOW THERE'S A PANDEMIC HAPPENING, THAT THOSE THOUGHTS ARE GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY JUST BE DISMISSED OUT OF SOMEONE'S MIND.

THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL STUDIES ABOUT PEOPLE IN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY EITHER NOT FULLY UNDERSTANDING OR GENUINELY HAVING THESE PREDETERMINED BIASES BELIEVING THAT BLACK PEOPLE OR PEOPLE OF THE AFRICA DIAS SPRA DON'T EXPERIENCE PAIN IN THE SAME WAY WHITE PEOPLE DO AND COULD BE ADVISED THAT THEY DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THEY'RE ACTING ON WHEN TREATING PATIENTS.

HOW DO YOU BEGIN TO ADDRESS SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS COMPLETELY UNAWARE THAT THEY'RE BELIEVING AND ACTING ON?

YEAH.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE START TO BRING IN A FRAMEWORK THAT CENTERS AN ANTI-RACIST MEDICAL MODEL OF CARE, WHERE INDIVIDUALS CAN HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE HISTORIES AND COMPLEXITIES OF WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO SERVE BLACK AND BROWN BODIES AND HOW DOES THAT SHOW UP.

LOOKING AT AUTHORS LIKE DEE DRAW COOPER OWENS WHO WROTE THE BOOK 'MEDICAL BONDAGE,' SHE GIVES A HISTORICAL CONTEXT AROUND WHAT HAS BEEN THE BLACK PERSON'S EXPERIENCE WITHIN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AS IT PERTAINS TO GYNECOLOGICAL AND REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH ISSUES AND THE WAYS IN WHICH OUR BRODIES HAVE BEEN USE AS TOOLS IN ORDER TO ADVANCE SCIENCE BUT ALSO IN THE SAME BREATH ARE SEEN AS LESS THAN.

HOW THESE SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS -- RACIAL CONSTRUCTS BECAME IN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AND HEALTH CARE EDUCATION.

IT'S ABOUT ADDRESSING THE ROOT OF IT WHICH IS THE EDUCATION THAT OBs, NURSES, MIDWIVES, WITH SOMEONE AROUND THEIR NTACT- REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH REALLY NEEDS TO BE EDUCATED ON THE HISTORY AND EXPERIENCES OF BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN IN THE CONTEXT OF THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM SO THEY CAN KNOW HOW TO APPROACH CARE FROM A CULTURALLY HUMBLE PLACE.

IT'S COMING FROM A PLACE WHERE YOU'RE LEARNING FROM THE PATIENT, UNDERSTANDING THAT I MAY NOT NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND -- THIS IS SOMEONE COMING BEFORE US WITH A COMPLEX IDENTITY.

ALL PEOPLE OF AFTER CAN'T DESCENT ARE NOT THE SAME EITHER.

UNDERSTANDING THAT, HOW DO I APPROACH CARE THAT ALLOWS ME TO CENTER THE INDIVIDUAL SO THEY CAN RETAIN THEIR BODILY AUTONOMY. IT'S ABOUT THE HIERARCHICAL APPROACHES TO POWER AND CONTROL WITHIN THE ROOM.

I LIKE TO GIVE PEOPLE THE EXAMPLE OF, SOMEONE WILL GO TO GET A ROUTINE PAP SMEAR.

YOU'RE THE FIRST PERSON YOU COME IN CONTACT WITH IS THE NURSE.

THE NURSE WILL SAY, OKAY, GO IN A ROOM, TAKE OFF YOUR CLOTHES AND WE'LL START THE VISIT.

YOU MAY HAVE NEVER MET THIS PERSON BEFORE, NEVER ENGAGED WITH THEM.

YOU JUST GOT THEIR INFORMATION FROM AN INSURANCE COMPANY, OKAY, THAT'S WHERE I'M GOING TO GO.

THIS PERSON COMES IN THE ROOM.

THEY HAVE THIS ENERGY THAT IS JUST OFF AND YOU REALLY DON'T WANT THEM IN YOUR PERSONAL SPACE, BUT NOW YOU HAVE NO CLOTHES ON, AND YOUR CLOTHES ARE YOUR SENSE OF PROTECTION.

WHAT WOULD IT MEAN FOR SOMEONE TO, LIKE, GO IN THE ROOM AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, I HAVE QUESTIONS.

LET ME KEEP MY CLOTHES ON AND SEE HOW IT GOES.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR SOMEONE TO INTERVIEW THE INDIVIDUAL BEFORE THEY DECIDE TO GO WITH CARE.

SO IT'S NOT JUST COMING FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF, I HAVE TO GO HERE BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE MY INSURANCE DICTATES.

IT'S THAT WE'RE HAVING A HUMAN INTERACTION WHICH SAYS I UNDERSTAND YOU ARE AN INDIVIDUAL WITH COMPLEX NEEDS.

I WANT TO CENTER YOUR BODILY AUTONOMY.

THAT LOOKS LIKE ME SITTING AND TAKING A MOMENT TO LISTEN TO YOU AND FIND OUT ABOUT YOU AND SEE IF YOU WANT CARE FOR ME.

I THINK THAT'S SOME OF THE STEPS.

OF COURSE I COULD CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION, AND I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE DO.

WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME UNFORTUNATELY.

CHANEL POUR SHEA ALBERT, THE FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF ANCIENT SONG DOULA SERVICE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND TALKING TO US ABOUT THIS INCREDIBLY COMPLEX ISSUE AND PARTICULARLY HOW IT PERTAINS TO PRENATAL CARE FOR BLACK WOMEN IN NEW YORK.

HI, I'M JENNA FLANAGAN OF 'METROFOCUS.'

THE LIFESTYLE CHANGES BROUGHT ABOUT BY THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC HAS SHIFTED MANY PEOPLE'S FOCUS TOWARDS THEIR LOVED ONES AND FAMILY.

BUT WHAT IF YOU WERE ON YOUR JOURNEY TO CREATE A FAMILY AND FOUND THAT SUDDENLY PUT ON HOLD?

INFERTILITY OR FERTILITY STRUGGLES AFFECTS ABOUT 10% OF THE POPULATION.

FOR THOSE STRUGGLING TO CREATE THE FAMILY OF THEIR DREAMS, IT CAN BE A SOURCE OF SEVERE ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION ESPECIALLY FOR WOMEN.

JOINING ME TO TALK ABOUT MANAGING STRESS, DISAPPOINTMENT AND THE OVERALL UNCERTAINTY OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC IS CHO LYNN MOYE, AN EASTERN MEDICINE FERTILITY SPECIALIST WHO HELPS WOMEN NAVIGATE WHAT IS OFTEN A COMPLICATED WEB OF THERAPIES AND EMOTIONS.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM CHO LYNN.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

FIRST, I JUST WANT TO START OFF WITH GETTING AN OVERALL UNDERSTANDING.

YOU'RE AN ACUPUNCTURIST AND A CHINESE MEDICINE EXPERT.

THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE FIRST STEP I THINK PEOPLE WOULD THINK OF WHEN THEY'RE THINKING OF FERTILITY TREATMENT.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT IT IS THAT YOU HELP WOMEN DO?

ABSOLUTELY.

MOST OF THE WOMEN THAT COME TO SEE ME, USUALLY THEY HAVE TRIED ON THEIR OWN AND THEY MAY HAVE GONE TO A FERTILITY CLINIC AND STARTED A LOT OF HORMONE THERAPY.

THEY MIGHT HAVE DONE SOME IUIs WHICH IS THE INTRAUTERINE INJECTION.

IT'S A TIMED INSEMINATION.

MOST OFTEN TIMES THAT'S NOT WORKING, AND THE NEXT STEP IS THEY'RE TOLD THAT THEY NEED TO DO IVF.

AT THAT POINT THEY ARE EXTREMELY STRESSED AND THEY'VE BEEN HORMONES.

OFTENTIMES THERE ARE A LOT OF UNDERLYING CONDITIONS THAT WERE NOT ADDRESSED PRIOR TO SUCH AS BEING ON BIRTH CONTROL FOR MANY YEARS, SO THEIR CYCLE MAY BE OFF.

AND ALSO, THEY MAY HAVE UNDERLYING CONDITIONS LIKE POLY CYSTIC OVARY SYNDROME.

SO THAT CREATES A LOT OF OTHER CHALLENGES WHEN TRYING TO GET PREGNANT.

SO WHEN THEY COME TO ME, THERE'S A BIG PORTION WHERE WE'RE ADDRESSING THARGEIR OVERALL HEA, THEIR SLEEP, THE STRESS, DIGESTION.

ALL THOSE THINGS ARE A REALLY BIG FACTOR INTO FERTILITY.

FERTILITY IS AN INDICATION OF YOUR OVERALL HEALTH.

IF YOU'RE HAVING STRUGGLES GETTING PREGNANT, THAT'S A SYMPTOM OF THE WHOLE HEALTH OF THE PERSON, AND SO FOCUSING ON THAT AND REALLY HELPING WOMEN TO REGULATE THEIR CYCLE, TO GET CONNECTED TO THEIR BODY -- OFTENTIMES THEY'RE UNAWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

THEY MAY HAVE HANDED IT OVER TO A DOCTOR TO TELL THEM.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF STRESS AND ANXIETY ABOUT THEIR CYCLE AND THEIR HEALTH.

AND USING ACUPUNCTURE AND HERBAL MEDICINE WHICH ARE NATURAL WAYS TO HELP SOMEONE TO HEAL AND BALANCE THEIR HEALTH SO THAT THEY'RE MUCH MORE FERTILE.

AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT -- AGAIN, YOU HEAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT HOW, OH, AND YOU KNOW EARLY 2021 THERE'S GOING TO BE THIS HUGE CORONAVIRUS BABY BOOM, ET CETERA.

BUT CAN YOU ALSO, AFTER WALKING US THROUGH WHAT SOME OF THE DIFFERENT THERAPIES ARE, WHY IS THAT VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR SOMEONE STRUGGLING WITH FERTILITY?

WELL, I WOULDN'T WANT TO SAY IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

BUT I THINK IT KIND OF IGNORES -- THE COMPARISON IS SOMETHING LIKE A SNOWSTORM WHERE EVERYBODY IS HUNKERED DOWN AND THEY JUST, OKAY, THIS IS A TIME TO GET CLOSE AND YOU HAVE MORE TIME WITH YOUR SPOUSE.

IN THIS CASE THERE'S A LOT OF ANXIETY AROUND WHAT IS HAPPENING GLOBALLY.

SO THERE ARE A LOT MORE ISSUES.

SO THAT IS ALSO TRIGGERING ANOTHER LEVEL OF STRESS.

AND PART OF THIS, BECAUSE OF THIS PANDEMIC THAT'S HAPPENING, A LOT OF THE PROCEDURES THAT WOMEN MIGHT HAVE BEEN GOING FOR TO KIND OF HELP SUCH AS A HIS STOW SAL PING GRAHAM WHICH IS SOMETHING THEY CHECK IF THE FALLOPIAN TUBES ARE OPEN, AND IN MANY CASES THAT IS ALSO A WAY TO MAKE IT EASIER TO GET PREGNANT, AND THEN ALSO HORMONE TREATMENTS OR RETRIEVALS OR EVEN TRANSFERS THAT ARE HAPPENING.

SO THAT MEANS, IF THEY WERE ON THAT PART OF THE JOURNEY, THAT WHEN THIS QUARANTINE IS OVER, THERE'S GOING TO BE A WAITING PERIOD FOR THOSE CLINICS TO GET UP TO SPEED AND THEN REALLY HAVE TO SEE WHERE WOMEN ARE HORMONALLY.

THERE'S A LOT THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF THE VIRUS THAT MIGHT AFFECT FERTILITY.

I WOULDN'T BE AFRAID OF IT.

IT'S JUST THAT I'M GUESSING THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT MORE CAUTION MOVING FORWARD WITH FERTILITY CLINICS.

FOR -- PARTICULARLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WOMEN RIGHT NOW.

YES.

IF THEY ARE STRUGGLING WITH FERTILITY AND, OF COURSE, THE CLINICS ARE CLOSED RIGHT NOW.

YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO SOME OF THE THERAPIES OR TREATMENTS YOU WERE GETTING BEFORE.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHO HAS SUDDENLY SEEN THEIR HOPES OF A FAMILY SORT OF GET STOPPED?

WE ALL HAVE HAD OUR LIVES PUT ON STOP.

BUT THIS IS SOMEBODY'S DREAM OF A FAMILY THAT WE'RE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE LEARNING TO LIVE WITH THAT HAS BEEN PUT ON HOLD, AND IT'S NOT CLEAR FOR HOW LONG.

JENNA, THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

WHAT I SAY IS THAT FOR THE WOMEN THAT WERE GOING FORWARD WITH INFERTILITY TREATMENTS THROUGH FERTILITY CLINICS, WITH REPRODUCTIVE ENDOCRINOLOGISTS, THAT RIGHT NOW THAT PARTICULAR PATH IS PAUSED.

HOWEVER, THEY CAN CONTINUE TO WORK ON THEIR OVERALL HEALTH AND IMPROVE THEIR FERTILITY, AND MY SUGGESTION -- THE STRESS OF THIS -- THE STRESS OF INFERTILITY IS REALLY HIGH.

I KNOW AT ONE POINT WE TALKED ABOUT IT'S NOT LISTED AS ONE OF THE TOP TEN THINGS.

I THINK THERE ARE GOING TO BE TWO MORE THAT WILL BE IN THE TOP TEN.

ONE IS THE FERTILITY AND THE OTHER IS WHEN YOU EXPERIENCE A PANDEMIC, THAT HAS KIND OF RAISED THE BAR OF STRESS FOR PEOPLE.

WHAT WOMEN CAN DO IS REALLY FOCUS ON THEIR HEALTH, FOCUS ON MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE HYDRATING, THAT THEY CAN DO SOME EXERCISE.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO CONTRIBUTE TO HAVING A MUCH HEALTHIER BODY THAT IS GOING TO SUPPORT FERTILITY.

SO EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT BE GOING INTO AN OFFICE, THAT THEY CAN DO A LOT TO IMPROVE.

AND ALSO WORK ON -- THE BIGGEST BARRIER, NOT THE ONLY ONE, IS STRESS.

THE STRESS HORMONES IN CORTISOL ARE THE BIGGEST ENDOCRINE INTERRUPTERS.

IT WILL IMMEDIATELY AFFECT THEIR MENSTRUAL CYCLE.

SO THIS IS SOMETHING TO WORK ON WHILE WE'RE IN THIS PAUSE.

FIRST OFF, I'M SPEAKING WITH CHO LYNN MOYE, AN EASTERN MEDICINE FERTILITY SPECIALIST WHO HELPS WOMEN DEALING WITH FERTILITY STRUGGLES AND INFERTILITY.

ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS IS FOR PEOPLE WHO LOVE SOMEONE WHO IS STRUGGLING WITH FERTILITY AND THEY THEY'RE SEEING THAT THEY'RE STRUGGLING WITH THE FACT THAT THEIR DREAMS OF A FAMILY HAVE BEEN PUT ON HOLD AND TIME IS PASSING BY.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BETTER THINGS THAT PEOPLE WHO LOVE THAT PERSON CAN DO?

MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT SHOULD PEOPLE MAYBE TRY NOT TO SAY?

SO, I'M GOING TO ADDRESS THE WHAT SHOULD THEY NOT TRY TO SAY.

SO ONE OF THE -- I WOULD SAY WORST THINGS TO TELL A WOMAN THAT IS UNDERGOING FERTILITY IS TO TELL HER TO JUST RELAX.

BECAUSE THAT REALLY DISMISSES HER EXPERIENCE THAT SHE'S UNDERGOING, AND IT KIND OF BLAMES HER FOR WHAT SHE'S STRUGGLING WITH.

I WOULD -- FOR SOMEBODY WHO THEY ARE STRUGGLING WITH FERTILITY AND SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS IT, IT'S VERY PAINFUL TO KIND OF BRING IT UP, TO SAY, OH, I KNOW YOU'RE STRUGGLING, HOW CAN I HELP YOU WITH THIS ONE THING?

IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE PERSON, NOT JUST -- IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT HER REPRODUCTION.

IT'S REALLY ABOUT ALL OF HER.

SO IF SOMEBODY HAS ANXIETY BECAUSE OF THEIR -- WHEN THEY THINK ABOUT THEY'RE HAVING DIFFICULTY CONCEIVING, THEY'RE HAVING ANXIETY, AND WHATEVER YOU CAN DO TO HELP SOMEBODY TO JUST TALK TO THEM, TALK TO THEM ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE, IN FACT, OTHER THAN THAT.

TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE SUNSHINE OR YOU'RE GOING TO GO OUT FOR A WALK.

EVEN THAT OF ITSELF CAN BE A CHALLENGE, BECAUSE SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE ARE SO FOCUSED ON THIS ONE THING, THAT'S LITERALLY ALL THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

IF THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.

I THINK WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IS TO JUST LISTEN AND NOT OFFER ADVICE.

OR TO ASK, WELL, HOW CAN I HELP YOU?

IS THERE SOMETHING I CAN DO TO HELP YOU -- THAT WILL HELP YOU FEEL BETTER?

I'D BE JUST VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT OFFERING ADVICE BECAUSE USUALLY IT'S NOT -- IT KIND OF -- EVEN IF THE ADVICE IS TRUE OR, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, HELPFUL TO THAT PERSON IF THEY DIDN'T ASK SPECIFICALLY FOR IT OR YOU COULD SHARE SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW, BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO ASK PERMISSION IF IT'S OKAY.

IS IT OKAY IF I GIVE YOU -- OFFER YOU SOME INSIGHT OR SOMETHING.

WE'RE COMING UP ON THE END OF OUR TIME, BUT I ALSO WANTED TO ASK BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WITH SO MANY PEOPLE SHELTERING AT HOME, A LOT OF US ARE SPENDING A LOT OF TIME ON THE INTERNET.

SOMETIMES THAT CAN BE HELPFUL, BUT SOMETIMES THAT MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST IDEA WHEN YOU'RE SEEKING ADVICE OR EVEN COMFORT SOMETIMES.

ABSOLUTELY.

SO IN MY PRACTICE, ONE OF THE THINGS I TELL WOMEN IS GET OUT OF THOSE CHAT ROOMS, BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM JUST PERPETUATE FEAR AND ALL OF THE PROBLEMS AND THE FAILURES AND THE STRUGGLES.

WHILE IT'S COMFORTING IN ONE WAY TO KNOW YOU'RE NOT A LOAN, THERE IS AN ASPECT OF -- WHEN SOMEONE SHARES THEY HAVE A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM AND OTHER THINGS, THAT YOU DON'T TAKE THAT ON YOURSELF AND SAY, OH, THAT COULD BE ME, AND THEN CONTINUE TO WORRY ABOUT A LOT OF OTHER THINGS THAT MAY NOT BE RELEVANT FOR YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

LISTEN, I WANT TO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

I'VE BEEN SPEAKING WITH CHO LYNN MOYE, AN EASTERN MEDICINE FERTILITY SPECIALIST PRACTICING IN NEW YORK, BUT ALSO WITH ACUPUNCTURE AS A MEANS OF HELPING WOMEN MANAGE STRESS AND ANXIETY AS THEY GO ON THEIR JOURNEY TOWARDS FERTILITY AND HOPEFULLY A FAMILY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO JOIN ME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

ABSOLUTELY.

'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.