SPECIAL REPORT: COMMUNITY TENSIONS AND THE NYPD

Recently protestors stormed New York City streets as two separate videos of police altercations in the subway with young men went viral. Was it proper policing or police brutality? We’ll take you inside life behind the badge and on the streets with two former NYPD officers. We’ll also discuss whether the NYPD is under siege and if the new commissioner will be able to fix the damage.

Aired on November 7 & December 18, 2019.

TRANSCRIPT

PROTESTERS STORM THE STREETS AS THESE VIDEOS OF POLICE ALTERCATIONS WITH A 19-YEAR-OLD AND A MINOR GO VIRAL.

WITH THE INCIDENTS UNDER INVESTIGATION POTATO SIDES GO ON THE ATTACK.

WAS IT PROPER POLICING OR POLICE BRUTALITY?

THEN LIFE BEHIND THE BADGE AND ON THE STREETS.

IS THE NYPD UNDER SIEGE?

AS A NEW COMMISSIONER TAKES THE HELM.

WILL HE BE ABLE TO FIX THE DAMAGE?

TWO FORMER NEW YORK CITY COPS JOIN US TO DISCUSS THE DANGERS, THE DISRESPECT, THE ACCUSATIONS, AND THE POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

THOSE ISSUES AND MORE AS THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF 'METROFOCUS' STARTS RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS 'METROFOCUS' WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

'METROFOCUS' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY JAMES AND MERRYL TISCH, SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

BERNARD AND IRENE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY --

> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO 'METROFOCUS.'

I'M G I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

THE NYPD HAS BEEN DOMINATING THE HEADLINES WITH NO SIGNS OF SLOWING DOWN.

TWO SEPARATE INS ACCIDENTS INVOLVING POLICE AND YOUNG MEN OF COLOR HAVE GONE VIRAL.

ADRIAN NAPIER IS SEEN WITH HIS HANDS UP BEING APPREHENDED BY MULTIPLE COPS ON A SUBWAY TRAIN.

15-YEAR-OLD BENNINGJAMIN MARSHA HE IS SUING THE NYPD FOR $5 MILLION AND THE OFFICER WHO TOOK THE SWING IS ON DESK DUTY AS THEIS INCIDENT IS INVESTIGAT.

IT SPARKED PROTEST AGAINST POLICE.

HUNDREDS RALLIED.

MANY JUMPED TURNSTILES AND MANY CHA CHANTED ANTI-UP, PUNCH A CLOCK.

POLICE ARE FRAMING THESE ARRESTS AS ROUTINE CASES AS FAIR BEATING ENFORCEMENT WHILE THE POLICE SAY THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FARES.

AND NOW THAT JAMES O'NEILL IS STEPPING TOWN AS TOP COP, WILL HIS REPLACEMENT, DERMOT SHEA, BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE DAMAGE?

JOINING ME TO PUT THIS INTO PERFORMANCE IS GRAHAM WEATHERSPOON A RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE WHO FORMERLY SERVED IN THE DEPARTMENT'S TRANSIT UNIT AND A FOUNDING MEMBER OF A HUNDRED BLACKS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT WHO CARE.

AND DARRIN PORCHER, A RETIRED NYPD LIEUTENANT WHO WORKED IN THE BRONX, TRANSIT AND WASHINGTON HEIGHTS AND HAS A HISTORY OF TRAINING CADETS AT THE POLICE ACADEMY.

WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

THAT'S A LOT TO COVER.

OF COURSE, WE HAVE A LOT TO TALK ABOUT ON THE SHOW.

FIRST I WANT TO GET TO THESE MAJOR INCIDENTS THAT HAVE GONE VIRAL THAT EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE TALKING ABOUT.

RIGHT NOW WE ARE JUST GOING TO TOSS TO THE FIRST, A 15-YEAR-OLD BENJAMIN MARSHALL WHO WAS SEEN IN A VIRAL VIDEO BEING PUNCHED IN THE FACE BY A POLICE OFFICER.

WE WILL JUST THROW TO THAT VERY QUICKLY.

ALL RIGHT.

SO, OF COURSE, WE KNOW ALL VIRAL VIDEOS DON'T TELL THE ENTIRE STORY.

FROM BOTH OF YOU I WOULD LIKE TO GET YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON HOW YOU SEE THIS VIDEO.

DARRIN.

WHEN WE SEE A VIDEO WHERE USE OF FORCE IS BEING EMPLOYED IT'S ALWAYS TROUBLING.

THERE IS NEVER A GOOD WAY TO VIEW USE OF FORCE.

WE HAVE IT TAKE IN CONSIDERATION WHENEVER WE SEE A VIDEO SUCH AS THIS ONE, WE GENERALLY SEE A SNIPPET.

WE NEED A COMPREHENSIVE OVERVIEW OF WHAT THE PARTICULAR INCIDENT IS.

THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I PRAISE AND TO TAUGHT THE BODY CAMERAS.

IT INTROCUS TRANSPARENCY AS WHEN THE INCIDENT STARTED, THE BEGINNING, AND END OF IT.

I REVERT BACK TO MY EXPERIENCE AS A LIEUTENANT IN THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS BUOWE IN THE NYPD.

OFTENTIMES I HAD INSTANCES WHERE A VIDEO OR SNIPPET WAS INTRODUCED AND IT APPEARED THERE WAS A LEVEL OF MISCONDUCT COMMITTED BY THE OFFICER.

WE HAD TO CONDUCT A MORE COMPREHENSIVE INVESTIGATION TO DETERMINE WHAT PRECEDED THE INCIDENT, WHAT HAPPENED AND WHAT ENDED IT.

THAT BEING SAID, THIS ALWAYS IS THIS INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS OR INTERNAL INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS THAT WILL PROVIDE THE FINAL OUTCOME AS TO WHAT THE ASSESSMENT FOR THE DEPARTMENT WOULD BE.

I UNDERSTAND THERE IS GOING TO BE A LEVEL OF OUTRAGE FROM THE COMMUNITY.

BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS WE NEED TO LET IT PLAY ITS COURSE AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THE DETERMINATIVE FACTOR AS TO WHAT HAPPENED AND WHAT DIDN'T HAPPEN AND THEN ONCE WE GET THE FINDINGS ON THIS CASE BASED ON THE DUE PROCESS, THEN WE CAN MAKE A MORE CREDIBLE ASSESSMENT AS TOO WH WHAT WE HAVE IN PLAY.

GRAHAM?

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT CIVILIANS DO VIDEO WHEN AN INCIDENT OCCURS NOT ONLY FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE INDIVIDUAL INVOLVED, BUT -- AND CAN BE FOR THE POLICE OFFICER, AS WELL.

A CAMERA SITTING ON MY CHEST IS ONLY GOING TO GIVE ME ONE ANGLE.

AS WE SAW IN THE ERIC GARNER CASE, THE YOUNG MAN THAT SHOT THAT VIDEO, WE SAW A PANORAMIC VIEW OF WHAT THE POLICE OFFICERS WERE DOING.

IF I HAVE A CAMERA ON MY CHEST, YOU CAN'T SEE WHAT I'M DOING BELOW THE LINE OF THE CAMERA.

AN INDEPENDENT LINE AND AT THAT IT'S NOT A PANORAMIC SHOT.

AS I LOOKED AT THE VIDEO I SAW THINGS WHICH REALLY DISTURBED ME.

JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR.

WHICH VIDEO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

THE ONE AT JAY STREET WHERE THE YOUNG MAN WAS STRUCK IN THE FACE.

IN THE EARLIER FRAME I SEE A GUY RUNNING UP TO A FELLOW AND JUST STRAIGHT OUT HITTING HIM.

THAT YOUNG FELLOW WAS FACING THE CAMERA.

A FEW SECONDS LATER THE OFFICER COMES BACK AND ATTACKS A SECOND YOUNG MAN.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE SAME OFFICER.

BUT IT WAS A LIEUTENANT IN THE WHITE SHIRT.

HE IS TRYING TO GET EVERYTHING IN CONTROL AND THE OFFICER IS TRYING TO MOVE THE KID BACK.

AN ARREST IS BEING MADE.

WHEN THAT SECOND OFFICER CAME AND PUNCHED THE FELLOW IN THE FACE, WHAT WAS THAT?

YOU KNOW, IN HAVING BODY CAMERAS, IT'S GOING TO GIVE AN ANGLE AND IT'S GOING TO GIVE A LIMITED SCOPE OF VIEW FOR THAT CAMERA.

SAME THING WITH THE PERSON DOING THE VIDEO INDEPENDENTLY.

THAT VIDEO DOESN'T GIVE YOU A 180-DEGREE PANORAMIC VIEW.

SO HAVING THE VIDEO IS IMPORTANT.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO STEP BACK OUT OF THE MELEE.

WE HAD A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE THERE.

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH TEENS OVER THE LAST WEEK, WITH REGARD TO THIS ISSUE, AND I HAVE TOLD THEM WHEN THERE IS A MAJOR SITUATION LIKE THIS, YOU NEED TO STEP BACK.

YOU CANNOT BE A WITNESS HAD YOU BECOME THE DEFENDANT.

WELL, YOUI WANT TO TAKE THAT IMPORTANT POINT HOW IT'S IMPORTANT TO STEP BACK AND ASK HOW THAT MESSAGE WOULD FIT WHEN WE HAVE OTHER COMMUNITY LEADERS, IN SOME CASES POLITICIANS, WHO ARE HAVING UNDERSTANDABLY VERY EMOTIONAL REACTIONS AS OTHER PEOPLE ARE TO SOME OF THESE INCIDENTS.

WE HAVE ONE FROM BROOKLYN BOROUGH PRESIDENT ERIC ADAMS.

HE HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE AND HE HAD THIS REACTION.

> I'M TRULY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT I SAW ON THAT VIDEO AND I'M GLAD THAT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY IS GOING TO LOOK AT IT.

YOU CANNOT OPENLY PUNCH A YOUNG PERSON IN THE FACE MERELY BECAUSE YOU ARE CAUGHT UP IN THE AGGRESSION OF THE MOMENT.

THAT IS HOW YOU HAVE DANGEROUS ENCOUNTERS TAKE PLACE.

THAT SITUATION COULD HAVE TURNED INTO A RRIOT IF THE OFFICERS DIT FOLLOW THE APPROPRIATE PROTOCOL.

SO, AGAIN, IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO TELL PEOPLE YOU HAVE TO STEP BACK.

YOU HAVE TO LET THE PROCESS PLAY OUT.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME THERE IS SO MUCH EMOTION AND SO MUCH HISTORY WITH PARTICULARLY PEOPLE OF COLOR AND THE NYPD THAT IT CAN BE HARD TO DO THAT.

SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON SOMEONE LIKE THE BROOKLYN BOROUGH PRESIDENT STEPPING IN AND SHARING HIS THOUGHTS?

THERE HAS BEEN A STATE OF ACRIMONY BETWEEN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR FOR A LONG TIME.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT JUST EXISTS IN NEW YORK CITY.

THIS IS A NATIONWIDE CRISIS.

WE SHOULD HAVE A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN POLICE AND COMMUNITY AND NOT SEPARATED.

SO OFTENTIMES WHEN WE HAVE A SITUATION SUCH AS THE BROOKLYN BOROUGH PRESIDENT WHO IS A FORMER CAPTAIN IN THE NYPD MAKING A STATEMENT REQUESTING THE MODIFICATION OF THE OFFICER, I THINK I'M SOMEWHAT OPPOSED TO THAT.

I AM A STRONG PROPONENT OF LET'S LET DUE PROCESS PLAY OUT BEFORE WE MAKE THAT ASSESSMENT.

OFTENTIMES WE, WHEN WE MAKE STATEMENTS LIKE THIS, WHAT WE DO IS WE RILE THE BASE ON BOTH SIDES.

I THINK CALMER HEADS NEED TO PREVAIL.

A LOT OF TIMES WE NEED TO SIT DOWN, BOTH PARTIES, AND TRY TO APPRISE THE SOLUTION AS TO HOW WE CAN MOVE FORWARD FROM A COMMUNITY PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE POLICE ARE PUBLIC SERVANTS.

AT THE SAME TOKEN, WE DON'T WANT TO EX PASPERATE THE SITUATION.

AFTER HE FELT THIS WAY, I CAN UNDERSTAND IT.

I THOUGHT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A TABLE TOP INFORMATION EXCHANGE BETWEEN THE BROOKLYN BOROUGH PRESIDENT AND THE POLICE COMMISSIONER JAMES O'NEILL BECAUSE THE TWO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP.

AND THEN UPON CONCLUSION OF THAT MEETING, THAT'S WHEN THE TWO ENTITIES COULD HAVE INTRODUCED WHAT THEY FEEL ON A PARTICULAR INCIDENT WAS.

THAT'S MY ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION.

GRAHAM?

I TEND TO AGREE.

I KNOW BOTH PARTIES.

I KNOW ERIC.

I KNOW JAMES.

AND I HAVE BEEN THE VICTIM OF POLICE ABUSE AS A CHILD.

I THIS KNOT ON MY HEAD I GOT FROM A COP IN THE 75th PRECINCT WHEN I WAS ABOUT 7 YEARS OLD.

I HAVE BEEN ATTACKED WHILE WORKING IN MIDTOWN MANHATTAN.

I KNOW THE EMOTIONS VERY PERSONALLY.

BUT AS HE STATED, EMOTIONS RUN HIGH.

AND WE CAN'T ALLOW EMOTIONS TO REALLY OVERTAKE US BECAUSE THEN WE ARE NOT THINKING PROPERLY.

BUT I THINK THAT WHEN ERIC SPOKE HE SPOKE MAYBE SOMEWHAT OUT OF DISGUST AND THE RAGE.

WE AS BLACK MEN IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, WE DON'T BECOME BLUE.

WE DON'T BECOME BLUE.

WE REMAIN BLACK MEN.

BECAUSE OUTSIDE OF THAT UNIFORM, YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER BLACK MAN ON THE STREET.

AND WE'VE HAD OFF-DUTY POLICE OFFICERS SHOT TO DEATH HERE IN NEW NEW YORK CITY.

SO WE UNDERSTAND IT VERY WELL.

WE HAVE SUFFERED ABUSES FROM THE DEPARTMENT.

I AM NOT GOING TO GET INTO ALL OF THOSE THINGS, BUT WHAT I SAW WAS VERY DISTURBING.

BUT IN THE SAME SENSE WE WANT TO MAINTAIN A LEVEL OF CALMNESS TO PROCEED CLEARLY.

WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES, THERE HAS GOT TO BE SOMEONE AT THE TABLE TALKING IN ORDER TO BRING ABOUT CHANGE.

CHANGE IS NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO COME FROM DEMONSTRATIONS.

I WAS IN GIULIANI'S OFFICE AFTER A SHOOTING.

WE WERE IN A MEETING.

HE AND I, THE QUICK STATEMENT FROM GIULIANI WAS LET THEM PROTEST.

THEY'LL VENT.

AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO BUSINESS AS USUAL.

THAT'S WHAT GIULIANI SAID.

WE NEED MORE THAN PROTESTS.

WE NEED CHANGES IN POLICY.

WE NEED ACCOUNTABILITY.

AND THAT IS WHAT COMES AT THE SIT-DOWN AT THE TABLE, AS YOU MENTIONED, SITTING WITH THE COMMISSIONER TO BRING ABOUT THOSE NECESSARY CHANGES.

NOW, GRANTED, WHAT I SAW, I DIDN'T LIKE AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT OFFICER SHOULD BE ON PATROL.

HE SHOULD BE MODIFIED.

HE SHOULD BE PUT ON RESTRICTED DUTY UNTIL ALL OF THIS IS WORKED OUT BECAUSE, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PRECIPITATED THE INCIDENT.

I HAVE HEARD DIFFERENT STORIES.

WE HAVE ANOTHER INCIDENT WHICH WE SEEM TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A BACKGROUND OF, AND THAT IS THAT A YOUNG MAN, THERE WAS A CALL THAT WENT IN A YOUNG MAN E ENDED UP BEING ADRIAN NAPIER, ALLEGED TO HAVE HAD A GUN.

THE COPS CHASED HIM.

HE RAN DOWN TO THE SUBWAY.

ALLEGED JUMPED THE TURNSTILE.

GOT ON THE TRAIN.

OFFICERS AT THE FOLLOWING STOP PROCEEDED TO PICK HIM UP AND THIS IS WHAT WAS CAUGHT ON CITIZEN VIDEO AS WELL.

SO AGAIN WE SEE ANOTHER INCIDENT OF A YOUNG MAN OF COLOR BEING VERY AGGRESSIVELY TAKEN DOWN AND ARRESTED.

AGAIN IS THIS SOMETHING WHERE WE NEED TO STEP BACK AND SORT OF UNDERSTAND THE BIGGER PICTURE THAT THIS SITUATION HAPPENED IN, OR IS THIS SOMETHING WHERE, AGAIN, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO REACT EMOTIONALLY WHEN THEY SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I THINK WE NEED TO JUDGE EACH IP STANCE ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.

WHEN YOU HAVE AN OFFICER THAT RESPONDED TO SOMETHING THAT REFER TO AS A GUN RUN AND THAT CONSISTS OF AN INDIVIDUAL THAT'S IN POSSESSION OF A FIREARM, IT REALLY UPS THE ANTE IN TERMS OF THAT OFFICER'S RESPONSE.

THEY ARE NOW THINKING FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF HOW CAN I RESPOND TO THIS SAFELY?

HOW CAN I REMOVE A DANGEROUS WEAPON FROM THE STREET THAT CAN POSSIBLY HARM ANOTHER HUMAN BEING IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK?

SO THERE IS SOMEWHAT CONFLICTING -- THERE IS SOME CONFLICT GOING THROUGH AN OFFICER'S MIND, MEANING HOW CAN THEY GET IN THERE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND REMOVE THIS WEAPON FROM THIS INDIVIDUAL, BUT AT THE SAME TOKEN YOU WANT THIS TO BE A SAFE ENCOUNTER.

THE OFFAVERAGE OFFICER THAT TAKA GUN FROM CITIZEN IN THE STREET DOES NOT FIRE A SHOT.

THE AVERAGE INCIDENT DOES NOT REQUIRE A PHYSICAL EXERTION SUCH AS THROWING SOMEONE TO THE FLOOR, THINGS TO THAT EFFECT.

WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT FROM BOTH SIDES.

ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS IS IF THE POLICE STOP YOU, IF THEY TELL YOU TO FREEZE, DON'T MOVE, DON'T RUN.

ESPECIALLY WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A SITUATION WHERE THERE IS A GUN INVOLVED.

THAT DOESN'T GIVE THE OFFICERS THE RIGHT TO OVERLY COMMIT TO AN ACT AN AT OF BRUTALITY.

WE HAVE THE INDIVIDUAL THAT RAN, JUMPED THE TURNSTILE, SUBSEQUENTLY APPREHENDED AT THE NEXT STOP.

THIS COULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED EARLIER BECAUSE WHEN THAT INDIVIDUAL COMMITS TO AN ACT LIKE THAT, THEY JEOPARDIZE THEMSELVES AND JEOPARDIZE OTHER NEW YORKERS IN THE PROCESS.

SO I'M A FIRM PROPONENT IN FIREARMS CONTROL AND USE THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF FORCE NECESSARY.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT THAKS THIS -- THAT'S THE SOLE ASPECT IN QUINTESSENTIAL POLICING.

PEOPLE SHOULDN'T GET HURT WHEN THEY ARE ARRESTED.

IT'S A TWO-PRONGED COMPONENT.

NOT JUST THE OFFICER, BUT THE INDIVIDUALS AT HAND.

AS A RESULT OF THAT, IF AN OFFICER COMMITS TO AN ACT OF BRUTALITY OR MISCONDUCT, THAT'S WHEN MY INTERNAL AFFAIRS HAT KICKS IN.

I AM A STRONG PROPONENT DISCIPLINE NEEDS TO BE ENACTED APPROPRIATELY IF WE HAVE THAT.

I AM OKAY WITH LOOKING INTO THE INCIDENT.

WE JUST HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION BOTH SIDES OF THIS AND DID THE OFFICER ABIDE BY THE PROTOCOLS IN CONNECTION WITH THE PATROL GUY'S USE OF FORCE.

HERE IS MY INTERJECTION TO THAT, AND THAT IS THAT, ONE, THE YOUNG MAN TURNED OUT TO NOT HAVE A GUN ON HIM.

THAT'S ONE.

TWO, IN THE VIDEO WE SEE HIM WITH HIS HANDS UP, ALBEIT, ALLEGEDLY, HE RAN FROM THE COPS IN THE BEGINNING.

WHEN WE SEE HIM ON THE TRAIN, HE HAS HIS HANDS UP.

THERE IS NO GUN.

AND THREE IS THAT WHILE AGAIN I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO COMPLY WITH THE POLICE OFFICERS.

HOWEVER, WHEN A BRUTAL ARREST FITS INTO A LARGER PATTERN OF BRUTAL ARREST AND BRUTAL ARREST, IS IT FAIR TO THE PERSON WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE GROUP THAT'S BEING SOME MIGHT SAY PERSECUTED TO NOT HAVE THAT FIGHT OR FLIGHT INSTINCT WHEN THEY SEE COPS?

IT'S VERY WELL KNOWN FOR MOST AFRICAN-AMERICANS, WHEN THEY SEE A COP, BLACK OR WHITE, THE BLOOD PRESSURE GOES UP.

YOU OFTENTIMES, THIS IS A SYMPTOM OF A MUCH LARGER PROBLEM, AND THAT SYMPTOM OF THE MUCH LARGER PROBLEM IS OVERPOLICING OR HYPER AGGRESSIVE POLICING IN PARTICULAR COMMUNITIES, PARTICULARLY THE SOCIOECONOMICALLY DEPRIVED COMMUNITIES.

OFTENTIMES WE EQUATE THAT TO THE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

I GOT THAT.

I UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU ARE COMING FROM.

WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.

I GET PULLED OVER NOW AND MY BLOOD PRESSURE GOES THROUGH THE ROOF AND I AM AN EX-NYPD LIEUTENANT.

I AM UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN I AM STOPPED.

THERE IS A CERTAIN REGIMENT THAT I GO THROUGH.

THE GENTLEMAN TO MY RIGHT TEACHES PEOPLE, TEACHES YOUNG PEOPLE ON A REGULAR BASIS HOW TO ABIDE BY THAT REGIMENT SO YOU CAN EFFECTIVELY EXIT THAT ENGAGEMENT WITH POLICE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND AS SAFELY AS POSSIBLE.

AS A RESULT OF THAT, REMEMBER, COPS ARE HUMAN BEINGS, TOO.

SO THEY WANT TO GO HOME.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BRUTALIZE SOMEONE BASED ON WANTING TO GO HOME, BUT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT FROM BOTH SIDES.

I UNDERSTAND.

WE GO BACK TO THE DAYS OF SLAVE CATCHERS IN THE EARLY 1600s IN THE UNITED STATES AND A LOT OF THESE SLAVE PATROLS EVENTUALLY EVOLVED INTO POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

SO WE LOOK AT THAT HORRIFIC HISTORY OF POLICE AIN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY, IT MAKES ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD.

PEOPLE DO RUN BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO GET HURT.

BUT AS WE'RE TURNING THE CORNER AND WE'RE LOOKING TO EFFECT CHANGE IN THE POLICING COMMUNITY RELATIONSHIP, THAT'S WHEN THE TWO SIDES NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND WE NEED TO HAVE A PLAUSIBLE SOLUTION HOW WE DEAL WITH THESE POLICE AND COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENTS.

GRAHAM, I KNOW YOU WANT TO GET IN ON THIS.

I HAVE DONE A NUMBER OF GUN STOPS IN NEW YORK, ARRESTED A NUMBER OF PEOPLE.

TWO MEN TURNED OUT TO BE FBI AGENTS.

HOW DID YOU KNOW I HAVE A GUN?

IT'S WHAT I DO.

I LOOK FOR GUNS.

I FIND THEM.

I HAVE HAD ARMED SUSPECTS, GUN IN HAND, HAMMER IS COCKED, 357 MAGNUM IN HIS HAND.

NOT ONE SHOT WAS FIRED.

THE GUYS THAT I WORK WITH WERE NOT OUT THERE TO GET A COMBAT MEDAL, TO GET A KILL.

WE WERE THERE TO EFFECT ARRESTS WITHOUT HARMING THE INDIVIDUAL.

I AM NOT SAYING THERE AREN'T DANGEROUS PEOPLE OUT THERE.

I HAVE MADE ARRESTS OF ARMED INDIVIDUALS AND NOT A SHOT WAS FIRED.

WALK FORWARD.

THAT SITUATION I THINK WAS ON FRANKLIN AVENUE WHERE HE HAD HIS HANDS UP.

YOU HAD ALL THOSE POLICE OFFICERS.

THERE WAS AN OFFICER WITH HIS WEAPON OUT ON THE PLATFORM.

HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT SHOULD HAVE HIS WEAPON OUT.

HE HAS THE SUSPECT.

INSTRUCTIONS SHOULD BE GIVEN.

YOU DON'T HAVE TEN PEOPLE RUSH INTO A SUBWAY CAR BECAUSE IF ANYTHING DOES HAPPEN, ONE OF THE COPS ARE GOING TO WIND UP HURTING ANOTHER POLICE OFFICER.

AND WE HAVE HAD THAT HAPPEN TOO MANY TIMES WHERE COPS HAVE BEEN SHOT BY THEIR FELLOW OFFICERS AND THEN THEY WANT TO BLAME THE SUSPECT.

THE GENTLEMAN HAS HIS HANDS UP.

YOU ONLY NEED TWO OFFICERS, THREE AT BEST, TO COME IN, HAVE HIM STAND UP, CUFF HIM, SEARCH HIM, TAKE HIM OFF THE TRAIN.

YOU DON'T NEED TEN COPS TUMBLING INTO A TRAIN.

IT'S CHAOS.

TOTAL CHAOS.

ONCE THE OFFICERS HAVE HIM BY HAND, THE GUY OUTSIDE ON THE PLATFORM, HE CAN HOLSTER HIS WEAPON.

ALL RIGHT?

BECAUSE AS YOU HAVE OTHER OFFICERS COMING INTO THE VIEW, YOU DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE GETTING HIT.

GIVEN THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING AT LEAST ON THE GROUND LEVEL, LET'S GO A LITTLE BIT HIGHER UP IN THE RANKS AND TALK ABOUT THE LEADERSHIP AND HOW MUCH OF AN EFFECT THE COMMISSIONER HAS ON THE WAY POLICING IS ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTED AMONGST EVERYDAY PEOPLE.

DO YOU THINK IT WAS A MISTAKE ON THE PART OF THE MAYOR TO NOT CHOOSE A PERSON OF COLOR?

IN THE UPPER CADRE OF THE DEPARTMENT, THE PERSON WHO I THOUGHT WOULD HAVE MADE A GREAT COMMISSIONER YEARS AGO WAS PHIL BANKS.

AND THEN ISSUES CAME UP WITH REGARD TO PHIL.

THE 6-0 PRECINCT, WHEN THEY HAD THAT INCIDENT DOWN AT 6-0.

BUT BRATTON WAS PUSHING PHIL INTO A CIVILIAN POSITION.

AND PHIL SAID I'M NOT TAKING A CIVILIAN POSITION, ALL RIGHT?

I'M A POLICE OFFICER.

I AM GOING TO REMAIN A POLICE OFFICER.

SO PHIL LEFT.

AND ANOTHER THING, IT'S A LITTLE DIVERGENT, I NEVER WANTED TO BE A COP.

I BECAME A POLICE OFFICER BECAUSE I FELT I COULD DO THE JOB BETTER THAN A LOT OF COPS THAT I SAW OUT THERE DOING THE JOB.

ALL RIGHT?

THAT IS AN INTERESTING NOTE.

AND WE NEED YOUNG FOLKS TO TAKE THAT ATTITUDE.

AND WITH IT YOU ARE NOT LOOKING TO TAKE THIS JOB TO BE A POLICE OFFICER.

WITH YOUR MIND, YOU ARE GOING TO STUDY.

WITH YOUR MIND, YOU ARE GOING TO BECOME A SERGEANT.

WITH YOUR MIND, YOU ARE GOING TO BECOME A LIEUTENANT.

YOU ARE GOING TO BECOME A CAPTAIN TO TAKE ON THE LEADERSHIP ROLES TO DETERMINE HOW A POLICE OFFICER WILL AND WILL NOT DO HIS JOB UNDER YOUR CONTROL.

THAT IS WHAT WE NEED.

WE NEED OUR YOUNG FOLKS -- IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE COMPLAINERS.

YOU HAVE GOT TO COME IN.

YOU HAVE TO GET ON THE INSIDE TO BRING THE CHANGE.

AND KNOW, NO, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE OVERNIGHT.

WE DIDN'T GET THE CIVIL RIGHTS BILL PASSED IN THE THREE YEARS OF MARTIN LUTHER KING.

THAT WAS AN 80-YEAR PROCESS.

WE NEED YOUNG BLACK PEOPLE TO TAKE THE EXAM AND TAKE THE CIVIL SERVICE JOBS, WHICH MEANS AVOID ANY CONFRONTATIONS.

AND WE WANT THEM -- YOU DON'T PROVE YOUR MANHOOD ON THE STREET CORNER WITH THE COP.

OKAY.

DARRIN, SAME THOUGHTS FROM YOU ON HOW YOU SEE LEADERSHIP AFFECTING ACTUAL POLICING, AND DOES THIS NEW COMMISSIONER, DOES HE MAKE A DINS OR NOT?

I AM NOT ONE THAT BUYS INTO IDENTITY POLITICS OR IDENTITY LEADERSHIP.

I DON'T THINK A PERSON NEEDS TO BE OF A PARTICULAR RACE, RACE/ETHNICITY OR MALE OR FEMALE.

WE LOOK AT PLACES LIKE BALTIMORE AND NEW ORLEANS WHERE POLICE DEPARTMENTS THAT WERE DRIVEN BY AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

BUT AT THE SAME TOKEN, THIS IS THE THIRD IRISH MALE THAT HAS BEEN SELECTED WITHIN THE DE BLASIO ADMINISTRATION, AND I WORKED IN THE NYPD AND I KNOW OF MANY QUALIFIED AFRICAN-AMERICANS, LATINOS, OR EVEN FEMALES THAT COULD HAVE -- THAT WERE PROPERLY SUITED FOR A POSITION AS THE COMMISSIONER.

IT BEGS THE QUESTION OF HIS WILLINGNESS TO CONNECT WITH THESE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

I JUST THINK THAT WE HAVE A VERY FINE TAPESTRY THAT'S MULTICULTURAL IN THE NYPD SUCH AS BEN TUCKER, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO IS THE FIRST DEPUTY COMMISSIONER.

HE IS AN OAFRICAN-AMERICAN MALE AND HE HAS BEEN IN THAT POSITION FOR A WHILE AND HE HAS BEEN PASSED OVER LEFT AND RIGHT AS A NUMBER TWO.

IT BEGS THE QUESTION, WAS THERE A TRUE SCOUT FOR TALENT IN THE DEPARTMENT?

I THINK THAT WE ALSO, WE DIDN'T SIGN UP TO BE MISTREATED AS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER AFRICAN-AMERICAN THAT COMES IN AND MISTREATS OUR POPULATION.

WE WANT A PERSON THAT'S SOUND, THAT CAN DO THE JOB, AND I JUST THINK THAT THIS WAS A VERY SHORTSIGHTED MOVE ON MAYOR DE BLASIO AND NOT EXERCISING HIS ABILITY AS THE CHIEF ELECTED OFFICIAL TO POSSIBLY FIND SOMEONE ELSE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THERE ARE GREAT WOMEN OUT THERE THAT CAN DO THIS JOB.

WE HAVE NEVER HAD A FEMALE COMMISSIONER IN THE NYPD.

WE HAVE NEVER HAD A LATINO COMMISSIONER IN THE NYPD.

GRANTED, WE HAVE HAD TWO AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMISSIONERS OVER THE 160 PLUS YEARS, BUT I JUST THINK THAT THERE IS FAR MORE IN PLACE OTHER THAN HAVING A MALE IRISH PERSON AT THE HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT.

RAY KELLY WAS THE COMMISSIONER FOR 12 YEARS.

AFTER THAT WE HAD WILLIAM BRATTON.

THEN WE HAD JAMES O'NEILL.

NOW WE HAVE SHEA COMING IN.

I JUST THINK THAT WE HAVE MORE TO OFFER AS A SOCIETY.

I WAS SOMEWHAT DISAPPOINTED IN DE BLASIO'S CHOICE AS A RESULT.

UNFORTUNATELY, GENTLEMAN, WE WILL HAVE TO LEAVE IT.

I WOULD ABSOLUTELY LOVE TO HAVE YOU BACK.

THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO TALK ABOUT.

WE HAVE TO END.

SO THANK YOU BOTH FOR THE WORK THAT YOU DO AND FOR JOINING US ON THE PROGRAM.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ABSOLUTELY.

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