METROFOCUS SPECIAL: NEWSDAY INVESTIGATION: “LONG ISLAND DIVIDED”

December 13, 2019 at 5:30 am

Newsday went undercover and revealed evidence of some real estate agents treating prospective minority homebuyers differently than their white counterparts. Tonight, we’ll look at the three-year hidden camera investigation that shows agents sending African American, Hispanic and Asian potential buyers away from white neighborhoods.

Aired on December 12, 2019. 

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00:00:00:04 00:00:02:04 >>> TONIGHT ON "METROFOCUS" --
00:00:02:04 00:00:04:11 HOUSING DISCRIMINATION ON LONG
00:00:04:11 00:00:06:23 ISLAND.
00:00:06:23 00:00:07:11 "NEWSDAY" WENT UNDERCOVER AND
00:00:07:11 00:00:08:21 REVEALED SHOCKING EVIDENCE OF
00:00:08:21 00:00:10:13 SOME REAL ESTATE AGENTS TREATING
00:00:10:13 00:00:11:23 PROSPECTIVE MINORITY HOME BUYERS
00:00:11:23 00:00:14:08 DIFFERENTLY THAN THEIR WHITE
00:00:14:08 00:00:14:18 COUNTERPARTS.
00:00:14:18 00:00:15:22 >> I HAVE TO SAY IT WITHOUT
00:00:15:22 00:00:16:13 SAYING IT.
00:00:16:13 00:00:19:05 YOU HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE
00:00:19:05 00:00:19:24 AREA.
00:00:19:24 00:00:20:24 >> YEAH.
00:00:20:24 00:00:22:29 >> I'M USING THE WORD --
00:00:22:29 00:00:23:22 >> ABSOLUTELY.
00:00:23:22 00:00:25:22 >> WE'LL LOOK AT THE THREE-YEAR
00:00:25:22 00:00:26:28 HIDDEN CAMERA INVESTIGATION THAT
00:00:26:28 00:00:28:09 SHOWS AGENTS SENDING
00:00:28:09 00:00:30:07 AFRICAN-AMERICAN, HISPANIC, AND
00:00:30:07 00:00:31:26 ASIAN POTENTIAL HOME BUYERS AWAY
00:00:31:26 00:00:33:19 FROM WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS.
00:00:33:19 00:00:37:02 THIS SPECIAL REPORT ON
00:00:37:02 00:00:38:15 DISCRIMINATION IN REAL ESTATE AS
00:00:38:15 00:00:53:15 "METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.
00:00:53:15 00:00:55:22 >> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH
00:00:55:22 00:00:59:22 RAFAEL P. ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND
00:00:59:22 00:01:00:27 JENNA FLANIGAN.
00:01:00:27 00:01:02:03 "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE
00:01:02:03 00:01:07:03 BY -- JAMES AND MERYL TISCH.
00:01:07:03 00:01:09:14 SUE AND EDWARD WALKENHEIM III.
00:01:09:14 00:01:13:28 THE SYLVIA A. ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT
00:01:13:28 00:01:14:08 ANTI-SEMITISM.
00:01:14:08 00:01:17:17 BERNARD AND IRENE SCHWARTZ.
00:01:17:17 00:01:21:14 BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.
00:01:21:14 00:01:22:07 AND BY.
00:01:22:07 00:01:23:26 >> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO
00:01:23:26 00:01:24:06 "METROFOCUS."
00:01:24:06 00:01:26:05 I'M RAFAEL P. ROMAN.
00:01:26:05 00:01:27:20 TONIGHT HOUSING DISCRIMINATION
00:01:27:20 00:01:28:12 IN LONG ISLAND.
00:01:28:12 00:01:29:27 A THREE-YEAR INVESTIGATION BY
00:01:29:27 00:01:31:23 "NEWSDAY" HAS PUT A SPOTLIGHT ON
00:01:31:23 00:01:33:23 THE WIDESPREAD SEPARATE AND
00:01:33:23 00:01:34:23 UNEQUAL TREATMENT OF POTENTIAL
00:01:34:23 00:01:36:26 HOME BUYERS BY REAL ESTATE
00:01:36:26 00:01:38:17 BROKERS ON THE ISLAND, A CLEAR
00:01:38:17 00:01:40:02 VIOLATION OF FEDERAL FAIR
00:01:40:02 00:01:41:28 HOUSING LAWS.
00:01:41:28 00:01:44:08 THE EXPLOSIVE INVESTIGATION USED
00:01:44:08 00:01:45:06 HIDDEN CAMERAS TO TEST WHETHER
00:01:45:06 00:01:47:15 WHITE, BLACK, HISPANIC AND ASIAN
00:01:47:15 00:01:49:05 HOME BUYERS WERE TREATED
00:01:49:05 00:01:51:17 DIFFERENTLY DESPITE HAVING
00:01:51:17 00:01:52:28 NEARLY IDENTICAL QUALIFICATIONS.
00:01:52:28 00:01:53:25 THE FINDINGS WERE REVEALING.
00:01:53:25 00:01:55:20 THEY SHOWED AMONG OTHER THINGS
00:01:55:20 00:01:57:07 EVIDENCE THAT AGENTS ROUTINELY
00:01:57:07 00:01:59:09 STEERED MINORITIES AWAY FROM
00:01:59:09 00:02:01:05 MOSTLY WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS AND
00:02:01:05 00:02:01:27 DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BLACKS
00:02:01:27 00:02:04:26 ABOUT 50% OF THE TIME.
00:02:04:26 00:02:06:06 IN A MOMENT WE'LL BE JOINED BY
00:02:06:06 00:02:07:24 THE EDITOR OF THE "NEWSDAY"
00:02:07:24 00:02:08:02 PROJECT.
00:02:08:02 00:02:10:00 BUT FIRST HERE'S A LOOK AT PART
00:02:10:00 00:02:11:24 OF THAT REPORT, INCLUDING THE
00:02:11:24 00:02:14:05 HIDDEN CAMERA RECORDINGS THAT
00:02:14:05 00:02:19:08 FORMED THE BASIS OF "NEWSDAY'S"
00:02:19:08 00:02:28:04 FINDINGS.
00:02:28:04 00:02:31:13 >> YEAH.
00:02:31:13 00:02:33:13 >> YEAH.
00:02:33:13 00:02:36:01 >> TODAY'S THE 21st OF APRIL.
00:02:36:01 00:02:38:13 >> IT'S ABOUT 10 AFTER 2:00 AND
00:02:38:13 00:02:42:01 I'M IN MY CAR.
00:02:42:01 00:02:44:03 >> RICHARD HOWLING TESTING WITH
00:02:44:03 00:02:46:02 BROWNING ON MAY 3rd.
00:02:46:02 00:02:47:22 >> HELLO.
00:02:47:22 00:02:56:11 >> MY NAME IS --
00:02:56:11 00:03:01:00 >> THEY'RE ORDINARY LONG
00:03:01:00 00:03:01:08 ISLANDERS.
00:03:01:08 00:03:04:11 SENT IN TO MEET WITH REAL ESTATE
00:03:04:11 00:03:07:03 AGENTS TO ASK ABOUT BUYING THEIR
00:03:07:03 00:03:09:23 FIRST HOME.
00:03:09:23 00:03:13:10 >> THEY WERE TRAINED, CONFIDENT,
00:03:13:10 00:03:14:29 AND FOLLOWED SCRIPTS.
00:03:14:29 00:03:16:29 >> NICHOLAS PARISI.
00:03:16:29 00:03:20:03 >> THEY HAD NO IDEA WHAT HOUSES
00:03:20:03 00:03:23:01 AGENTS WOULD SUGGEST OR EVEN
00:03:23:01 00:03:23:24 WHICH COMMUNITIES.
00:03:23:24 00:03:25:03 >> IT'S A MIXED NEIGHBORHOOD.
00:03:25:03 00:03:27:23 >> MIXED NEIGHBORHOOD?
00:03:27:23 00:03:32:06 >> IF AGENTS ARE COURTEOUS AND
00:03:32:06 00:03:33:07 PROFESSIONAL HOW CAN YOU KNOW IF
00:03:33:07 00:03:34:00 THEY'RE TREATING YOU EQUALLY
00:03:34:00 00:03:35:11 WITH SOMEONE OF A DIFFERENT RACE
00:03:35:11 00:03:36:21 OR ETHNICITY?
00:03:36:21 00:03:39:03 >> I HAVE TO SAY IT WITHOUT
00:03:39:03 00:03:39:11 SAYING IT.
00:03:39:11 00:03:40:04 >> BEHIND SMILES AND HANDSHAKES
00:03:40:04 00:03:40:23 HOW DO YOU KNOW IF THEY'RE
00:03:40:23 00:03:42:07 GIVING YOU FEWER OPTIONS OR
00:03:42:07 00:03:51:28 SUGGESTING DIFFERENT AREAS?
00:03:51:28 00:03:53:06 WHAT IF RULES DON'T APPLY TO YOU
00:03:53:06 00:03:55:13 AND ANOTHER HOME BUYER IN THE
00:03:55:13 00:03:56:01 SAME WAY?
00:03:56:01 00:03:59:24 LONG ISLAND IS ONE OF AMERICA'S
00:03:59:24 00:04:02:18 MOST SEGREGATED SUBURBS.
00:04:02:18 00:04:03:23 "NEWSDAY" SET OUT TO DISCOVER
00:04:03:23 00:04:04:24 WHAT ROLE REAL ESTATE AGENTS
00:04:04:24 00:04:08:00 MIGHT PLAY IN KEEPING IT THAT
00:04:08:00 00:04:09:16 WAY, POTENTIALLY AFFECTING THE
00:04:09:16 00:04:15:18 QUALITY OF LIVES.
00:04:15:18 00:04:18:08 IN HOUSE HUNTING IT'S NEARLY
00:04:18:08 00:04:19:17 IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE EVIDENCE OF
00:04:19:17 00:04:20:16 HIDDEN DISCRIMINATION.
00:04:20:16 00:04:23:09 YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW.
00:04:23:09 00:04:44:13 UNLESS YOU GO UNDERCOVER.
00:04:44:13 00:04:46:21 >> IN ONE TEST JOHNNY MAY ALSTON
00:04:46:21 00:04:48:10 WAS THE BLACK TESTER AND CINDY
00:04:48:10 00:04:56:05 PERRY WAS THE WHIES TE TESTER A
00:04:56:05 00:04:58:13 THEY MET WITH AN AGENT IN COLD
00:04:58:13 00:05:00:10 SPRING HAHARBOR.
00:05:00:10 00:05:01:12 AS OFTEN HAPPENS THE AGENT
00:05:01:12 00:05:03:24 DISCUSSED GETTING PREQUALIFIED
00:05:03:24 00:05:06:17 OR PREAPPROVED FOR A MORTGAGE BY
00:05:06:17 00:05:08:05 A BANK TO FIND OUT HOW MUCH A
00:05:08:05 00:05:14:15 BUYER CAN SPEND ON A HOUSE.
00:05:14:15 00:05:16:24 >> YOU KNOW ABOUT GETTING
00:05:16:24 00:05:17:03 PREAPPROVED.
00:05:17:03 00:05:18:07 >> NEITHER HAD BEEN PREAPPROVED
00:05:18:07 00:05:19:13 OR PREQUALIFIED.
00:05:19:13 00:05:20:12 HERE'S WHAT THE AGENT TOLD THE
00:05:20:12 00:05:30:07 BLACK TESTER.
00:05:30:07 00:05:35:12 >> YOU NEED TO PREQUALIFY FOR A
00:05:35:12 00:05:35:20 MORTGAGE.
00:05:35:20 00:05:39:01 WE CAN'T GO OUT TO SEE ANYTHING.
00:05:39:01 00:05:40:01 >> YOU CAN TRY ANOTHER PERSON
00:05:40:01 00:05:42:01 BUT I DON'T HAVE THE TIME.
00:05:42:01 00:05:43:25 >> WITHOUT PREAPPROVAL HERE'S
00:05:43:25 00:05:45:03 WHAT THE AGENT TOLD THE WHITE
00:05:45:03 00:05:45:29 TESTER.
00:05:45:29 00:05:51:18 >> WHAT IS YOUR AVAILABILITY?
00:05:51:18 00:05:53:04 >> I'LL SAY NOT THIS COMING
00:05:53:04 00:05:54:03 WEEK --
00:05:54:03 00:05:57:13 >> CINDY RECEIVED 79 LISTINGS
00:05:57:13 00:05:58:05 FROM THIS AGENT.
00:05:58:05 00:05:59:29 JOHNNY MAY COULDN'T GET ANY
00:05:59:29 00:06:00:09 LISTINGS.
00:06:00:09 00:06:02:10 AND CINDY, THE WHITE TESTER,
00:06:02:10 00:06:04:19 RECEIVED TWO HOME TOURS.
00:06:04:19 00:06:07:13 THEY HAD THE SAME FINANCES, THE
00:06:07:13 00:06:09:17 SAME BUDGET, AND THEY MADE THE
00:06:09:17 00:06:12:26 SAME REQUEST IN THE SAME AREA.
00:06:12:26 00:06:14:25 BUT ONE WAS WHITE, THE OTHER WAS
00:06:14:25 00:06:15:01 BLACK.
00:06:15:01 00:06:15:25 THE AGENT TREATED THEM
00:06:15:25 00:06:20:21 DIFFERENTLY.
00:06:20:21 00:06:25:18 SHE DID NOT RESPOND TO A LETTER,
00:06:25:18 00:06:26:00 CALLS, OR E-MAILS.
00:06:26:00 00:06:30:03 HER AGENCY'S MANAGER VIEWED THE
00:06:30:03 00:06:31:22 RECORDINGS AND DECLINED TO
00:06:31:22 00:06:31:29 COMMENT.
00:06:31:29 00:06:35:19 >> A THREE-YEAR UNDERCOVER
00:06:35:19 00:06:37:03 "NEWSDAY" INVESTIGATION REVEALED
00:06:37:03 00:06:40:01 EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD HIDDEN
00:06:40:01 00:06:42:11 DISCRIMINATION BY REAL ESTATE
00:06:42:11 00:06:44:15 AGENTS BROKERING HOME SALES
00:06:44:15 00:06:46:07 ACROSS LONG ISLAND.
00:06:46:07 00:06:47:03 FOR HISPANIC HOME SEEKERS
00:06:47:03 00:06:49:01 EVIDENCE OF UNFAIR TREATMENT
00:06:49:01 00:06:52:15 EMERGED 39% OF THE TIME.
00:06:52:15 00:06:58:17 FOR ASIANS THE RATE WAS 19%.
00:06:58:17 00:07:00:03 BLACK HOUSE HUNTERS IN THE
00:07:00:03 00:07:02:17 INVESTIGATION RISKED UNEQUAL,
00:07:02:17 00:07:04:08 LESSER ACCESS TO HOMES AND
00:07:04:08 00:07:07:04 COMMUNITIES JUST ABOUT HALF THE
00:07:07:04 00:07:07:21 TIME WHEN COMPARED TO WHITE
00:07:07:21 00:07:20:11 BUYERS.
00:07:20:11 00:07:23:23 >> KELVIN TOON IS A BLACK MAN IN
00:07:23:23 00:07:25:07 HIS EARLY 50s AND HE WENT IN TO
00:07:25:07 00:07:27:19 MEET WITH AN AGENT INVOLVING A
00:07:27:19 00:07:29:09 TEST IN THE BRENTWOOD COMMUNITY,
00:07:29:09 00:07:33:11 A COMMUNITY THAT IS 80% HISPANIC
00:07:33:11 00:07:33:19 AND BLACK.
00:07:33:19 00:07:36:06 >> THE AGENT COMMUNICATED TO
00:07:36:06 00:07:37:21 KELVIN OUR BLACK TESTER THAT SHE
00:07:37:21 00:07:39:03 ENJOYED MEETING WITH CLIENTS
00:07:39:03 00:07:40:20 FROM THE BRENTWOOD AREA.
00:07:40:20 00:07:42:17 >> ANYTIME I GET A REFERRAL IN
00:07:42:17 00:07:43:08 BRENTWOOD OR ANOTHER CLIENT I
00:07:43:08 00:07:44:10 GET SO EXCITED BECAUSE THEY'RE
00:07:44:10 00:07:44:23 NICE PEOPLE.
00:07:44:23 00:07:46:24 >> WHEN WE SENT KELVIN'S
00:07:46:24 00:07:47:27 COUNTERPART IN TO MEET WITH THE
00:07:47:27 00:07:51:01 SAME AGENT, THE WHITE TESTER WAS
00:07:51:01 00:07:51:25 ACTUALLY WARNED ABOUT BRENTWOOD
00:07:51:25 00:07:53:28 NOT BEING A NICE PLACE.
00:07:53:28 00:07:56:03 >> THE NURSING HOME WE NEED TO
00:07:56:03 00:07:58:11 BE NEAR IS NEAR -- IS IN
00:07:58:11 00:07:58:19 BRENTWOOD.
00:07:58:19 00:07:59:01 >> OKAY.
00:07:59:01 00:08:00:19 >> SO WE FOUND A COUPLE THAT ARE
00:08:00:19 00:08:04:24 IN BRENTWOOD.
00:08:04:24 00:08:05:20 >> CLOSE TO THERE.
00:08:05:20 00:08:06:27 >> OKAY.
00:08:06:27 00:08:08:09 >> IT SEEMED THOSE WOULD BE
00:08:08:09 00:08:10:16 HANDY TO GO VISIT.UE TO
00:08:10:16 00:08:11:09 ME AND I CAN --
00:08:11:09 00:08:13:03 >> YEAH, I CAN DO THAT.
00:08:13:03 00:08:15:10 >> THE WARNING CAME FROM THE
00:08:15:10 00:08:17:24 WHITE TESTER SAYING THERE WAS
00:08:17:24 00:08:19:07 CONCERN ABOUT GANG ACTIVITY
00:08:19:07 00:08:27:23 GOING ON IN BRENTWOOD.
00:08:27:23 00:08:31:16 THIS AGENT WANTED THE WHITE
00:08:31:16 00:08:33:06 TESTER TO KNOW WHY THAT
00:08:33:06 00:08:34:17 INFORMATION WASN'T PROVIDED TO
00:08:34:17 00:08:36:21 KELVIN, THE BLACK TESTER.
00:08:36:21 00:08:38:04 >> AGENT CENTERED BLACK TESTER
00:08:38:04 00:08:42:18 KELVIN ON BRENTWOOD IN 27 HOUSE
00:08:42:18 00:08:42:26 LISTINGS.
00:08:42:26 00:08:43:15 WHILE THE WHITE TESTER GOTZERO
00:08:43:15 00:08:47:22 LISTINGS IN BRENTWOOD AND WAS
00:08:47:22 00:08:51:25 DIRECTED TOWARD A DIFFERENT
00:08:51:25 00:08:52:05 NEIGHBORHOOD.
00:08:52:05 00:08:53:15 SHE DECLINED TO COMMENT.
00:08:53:15 00:08:54:19 KELLER WILLIAMS WHICH WAS HER
00:08:54:19 00:08:55:08 EMPLOYER AT THE TIME RELEASED
00:08:55:08 00:08:56:03 THIS STATEMENT.
00:08:56:03 00:08:57:11 "KELLER WILLIAMS DOES NOT
00:08:57:11 00:08:59:17 TOLERATE DISCRIMINATION OF ANY
00:08:59:17 00:08:59:26 KIND.
00:08:59:26 00:09:02:25 ALL COMPLAINTS OF LESS THAN
00:09:02:25 00:09:03:27 EXEMPLARY CONDUCT ARE ADDRESSED
00:09:03:27 00:09:11:25 AND RESOLVED."
00:09:11:25 00:09:14:20 >> "NEWSDAY" CONDUCTED TESTS
00:09:14:20 00:09:23:07 WITH WHITE AND HISPANICS AND
00:09:23:07 00:09:23:24 ASIAN BUYERS.
00:09:23:24 00:09:25:10 12 AGENTS THAT REPRESENTED HALF
00:09:25:10 00:09:27:26 OF THE ISLAND'S HOME SELLERS IN
00:09:27:26 00:09:28:02 2017.
00:09:28:02 00:09:34:07 THE PRIMARY QUESTION WAS WHETHER
00:09:34:07 00:09:34:24 THE AGENTS PROVIDED EQUAL
00:09:34:24 00:09:35:02 SERVICE.
00:09:35:02 00:09:36:00 WAS ONE TESTER PROVIDED MORE
00:09:36:00 00:09:40:20 LISTINGS THAN THE OTHER?
00:09:40:20 00:09:42:21 ALSO, WHERE WERE THOSE LISTINGS
00:09:42:21 00:09:42:28 PLACED?
00:09:42:28 00:09:45:23 DID THE AGENT RECOMMEND SIMILAR
00:09:45:23 00:09:46:14 NEIGHBORHOODS TO BOTH TESTERS?
00:09:46:14 00:09:48:20 >> HERE IN TEST 567 THE AGENT
00:09:48:20 00:09:50:08 FREDERICK WALLENMEYER PROVIDED
00:09:50:08 00:09:53:18 THE TESTERS WITH COMPARABLE
00:09:53:18 00:09:53:26 LISTINGS.
00:09:53:26 00:09:55:13 >> IN MY EYES YOU'RE A BUYER
00:09:55:13 00:09:56:04 YOU'RE A BUYER.
00:09:56:04 00:09:57:25 I WANTED TO GIVE THE POTENTIAL
00:09:57:25 00:09:59:07 BUYER A MORE DIVERSE LOOK AND
00:09:59:07 00:10:00:08 BACKGROUND ON THE HAMPTONS AND
00:10:00:08 00:10:02:04 WHAT THEY LIKE.
00:10:02:04 00:10:05:17 >> THE SAME TWO TESTERS FROM
00:10:05:17 00:10:09:17 NUMBER 56 MET WITH A DIFFERENT
00:10:09:17 00:10:11:23 AGENT IN TEST 59 AND DESPITE
00:10:11:23 00:10:14:15 ASKING FOR THE SAME PARAMETERS
00:10:14:15 00:10:18:00 THEY RECEIVED DISPARATE
00:10:18:00 00:10:26:03 LISTINGS.
00:10:26:03 00:10:29:08 >> THEY REALLY --
00:10:29:08 00:10:31:07 >> IN AN E-MAIL HE DESCRIBED HIS
00:10:31:07 00:10:33:03 STATEMENT ABOUT THE HISPANIC
00:10:33:03 00:10:35:18 COMMUNITY AS OUT OF CONTEXT,
00:10:35:18 00:10:37:13 ADDING "I APOLOGIZE FOR THE
00:10:37:13 00:10:39:16 REMARK AND I LOOK FORWARD TO
00:10:39:16 00:10:40:24 CONTINUALLY IMPROVING IN ORDER
00:10:40:24 00:10:43:16 TO SERVE ALL OF MY CLIENTS WITH
00:10:43:16 00:10:43:24 RESPECT."
00:10:43:24 00:10:47:05 HE ADDED THE STATEMENT "DOES NOT
00:10:47:05 00:10:49:21 REPRESENT WHO I AM AS A PERSON
00:10:49:21 00:10:52:00 AND DOES NOT REFLECT MY
00:10:52:00 00:10:53:00 PROFESSIONAL COMMITMENT TO TREAT
00:10:53:00 00:10:58:06 EVERYONE, CLIENTS, FAMILY, AND
00:10:58:06 00:10:59:04 FRIENDS, EQUALLY."
00:10:59:04 00:11:01:10 >> AS PERMITTED BY LAW,
00:11:01:10 00:11:02:19 "NEWSDAY" RECORDED ALL MEETINGS
00:11:02:19 00:11:04:09 BETWEEN TESTERS AND AGENTS AND
00:11:04:09 00:11:06:29 THEN TRANSCRIBED THE RECORDINGS.
00:11:06:29 00:11:09:19 >> HERE AN AGENT GIVES
00:11:09:19 00:11:11:13 CONFLICTING ADVICE ABOUT
00:11:11:13 00:11:11:21 FREEPORT.
00:11:11:21 00:11:19:05 >> I LIKE FREEPORT.
00:11:19:05 00:11:25:07 >> MATCHING THOSE TESTS, MAPPING
00:11:25:07 00:11:26:02 THE LI
00:11:26:02 00:11:26:24 THE LISTINGS AND RELYING ON THE
00:11:26:24 00:11:27:19 JUDGMENT OF FAIR HOUSING
00:11:27:19 00:11:28:27 EXPERTS, YOU START TO GET A
00:11:28:27 00:11:31:28 PICTURE OF WHETHER AN AGENT OR
00:11:31:28 00:11:33:20 MORE IMPORTANTLY AGENTS AT LARGE
00:11:33:20 00:11:34:29 ACROSS LONG ISLAND ENGAGED IN
00:11:34:29 00:11:42:03 DIFFERENT TREATMENT OF TESTERS.
00:11:42:03 00:11:43:23 >> YOU DON'T WANT TO GO THERE.
00:11:43:23 00:11:51:07 IT'S A MIXED NEIGHBORHOOD.
00:11:51:07 00:11:57:06 >> YOU'D BE MORE COMFORTABLE IN
00:11:57:06 00:11:59:13 A CERTAIN --
00:11:59:13 00:12:01:17 >> TWO SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
00:12:01:17 00:12:04:07 BRENTWOOD AND BAYSHORE.
00:12:04:07 00:12:04:26 YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE BRENTWOOD
00:12:04:26 00:12:05:08 SCHOOL DISTRICT.
00:12:05:08 00:12:06:27 YOU WANT TO HAVE BAYSHORE SCHOOL
00:12:06:27 00:12:07:05 DISTRICT.
00:12:07:05 00:12:12:29 >> I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING.
00:12:12:29 00:12:13:09 GO TO --
00:12:13:09 00:12:14:22 >> NO, THAT'S GREAT.
00:12:14:22 00:12:16:00 >> I HAVE TO SAY IT WITHOUT
00:12:16:00 00:12:16:17 SAYING IT.
00:12:16:17 00:12:18:09 YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE
00:12:18:09 00:12:26:13 OF THE AREAS.
00:12:26:13 00:12:27:03 >> ABSOLUTELY.
00:12:27:03 00:12:28:23 >> IF YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE
00:12:28:23 00:12:32:02 SAME INFORMATION, SOMETHING IS
00:12:32:02 00:12:33:02 DEFINITELY WRONG.
00:12:33:02 00:12:35:09 HOW DO YOU PROVE THAT IN THE
00:12:35:09 00:12:36:22 HEART OF THIS AGENT OR IN THE
00:12:36:22 00:12:38:05 MIND OF THIS AGENT THEY DID
00:12:38:05 00:12:39:05 STEER YOU SOMEPLACE?
00:12:39:05 00:12:41:14 YOU'RE JUST AT THE MERCY OF THE
00:12:41:14 00:12:44:24 REALTOR TO DO THE RIGHT THING.
00:12:44:24 00:12:47:23 AND WE'RE PROVING IT.
00:12:47:23 00:12:50:18 UNLESS THEY'RE TESTERS.
00:12:50:18 00:12:51:23 >> CAN I SPEAK TO AN AGENT ABOUT
00:12:51:23 00:12:52:24 PURCHASING A HOME?
00:12:52:24 00:12:54:14 >> I CAN HELP YOU.
00:12:54:14 00:12:54:23 >> GREAT.
00:12:54:23 00:12:56:15 >> NEW YORK IS A ONE PARTY
00:12:56:15 00:12:57:16 STATE, WHICH MEANS ONLY ONE
00:12:57:16 00:12:59:02 PARTY TO A CONVERSATION HAS TO
00:12:59:02 00:13:04:09 CONSENT TO A RECORDING.
00:13:04:09 00:13:06:11 SO MEN HAD BODY CAMS AFFIXED TO
00:13:06:11 00:13:07:08 THEIR CHEST.
00:13:07:08 00:13:08:26 IT WAS A BUTTONHOLE CAMERA.
00:13:08:26 00:13:10:20 WOMEN USED CAMERAS HIDDEN IN
00:13:10:20 00:13:11:15 THEIR PURSES.
00:13:11:15 00:13:13:12 THAT ALLOW US TO RECORD AS
00:13:13:12 00:13:14:05 EVIDENCE WHAT TRANSPIRED BETWEEN
00:13:14:05 00:13:17:06 THE TESTERS AND THE AGENTS.
00:13:17:06 00:13:20:26 THE TESTER WOULD HAVE TO
00:13:20:26 00:13:23:07 MEMORIZE THE DETAILS OF THE
00:13:23:07 00:13:23:24 PROFILE.
00:13:23:24 00:13:24:25 >> WHAT WAS YOUR NAME AGAIN?
00:13:24:25 00:13:26:00 >> PATRICK.
00:13:26:00 00:13:27:21 >> ARE YOU PREQUALIFIED?
00:13:27:21 00:13:28:25 >> NOT YET.
00:13:28:25 00:13:29:21 >> THAT'S A TOUGH ONE.
00:13:29:21 00:13:30:17 WE'RE BOTH NEW.
00:13:30:17 00:13:32:00 >> HOW DID YOU HEAR ABOUT US?
00:13:32:00 00:13:32:25 >> WE'RE CLOSE TO THE CITY.
00:13:32:25 00:13:34:05 >> WHAT'S YOUR TESTER NAME,
00:13:34:05 00:13:36:23 WHAT'S YOUR AGE, HOW MUCH MONEY
00:13:36:23 00:13:37:12 DO YOU HAVE IN THE BANK, WHAT'S
00:13:37:12 00:13:38:03 YOUR CREDIT SCORE, HOW LONG HAVE
00:13:38:03 00:13:38:21 YOU BEEN WORKING AT YOUR
00:13:38:21 00:13:41:15 EMPLOYER, WHAT'S YOUR WIFE'S
00:13:41:15 00:13:42:16 OCCUPATION, WHAT'S YOUR CHILD'S
00:13:42:16 00:13:43:15 NAME, ALL TO BUILD THEIR
00:13:43:15 00:13:44:19 CONFIDENCE SO WHEN THEY HIT THE
00:13:44:19 00:13:46:01 STREET WE WERE READY TO GO OUT
00:13:46:01 00:13:46:21 WITH THE RECORDING EQUIPMENT,
00:13:46:21 00:13:48:09 THEY WERE READY TO PLAY THAT
00:13:48:09 00:13:48:15 ROLE.
00:13:48:15 00:13:49:24 WHILE THE TESTERS WERE A DIVERSE
00:13:49:24 00:13:51:23 GROUP OF PEOPLE, WHITE, BLACK,
00:13:51:23 00:13:55:00 HISPANIC, AND ASIAN, THEY RANGE
00:13:55:00 00:13:57:14 FROM A 20-YEAR-OLD COLLEGE
00:13:57:14 00:14:00:20 STUDENT TO 60, PRO BONO
00:14:00:20 00:14:00:28 ATTORNEY.
00:14:00:28 00:14:02:20 WE DID MAKE USE OF A SIGNIFICANT
00:14:02:20 00:14:04:24 NUMBER OF ACTORS.
00:14:04:24 00:14:06:17 >> THE THINGS ACTORS DO FOR
00:14:06:17 00:14:06:26 WORK.
00:14:06:26 00:14:08:08 >> WHEN THE TESTER MEETS WITH
00:14:08:08 00:14:10:08 THE AGENT, THEY'RE BASICALLY
00:14:10:08 00:14:11:21 SAYING IN BROAD TERMS WHAT THEIR
00:14:11:21 00:14:12:17 HOUSING SEARCH IS.
00:14:12:17 00:14:14:18 >> I JUST NEEDED TO GET TO PENN
00:14:14:18 00:14:16:28 STATION WITHIN AN HOUR.
00:14:16:28 00:14:18:21 >> WHEN YOU SEND IN A TESTER,
00:14:18:21 00:14:19:16 THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S
00:14:19:16 00:14:20:11 HAPPENING ON THE OTHER HALF OF
00:14:20:11 00:14:22:02 THE TEST OR WHAT THEIR
00:14:22:02 00:14:22:26 COUNTERPART EXPERIENCED WHEN
00:14:22:26 00:14:24:08 THEY WENT TO THE SAME AGENT AT
00:14:24:08 00:14:26:04 THE SAME AGENCY.
00:14:26:04 00:14:27:24 IT WAS REALLY UNIQUE AND
00:14:27:24 00:14:29:29 INTERESTING FOR US TO BRING THE
00:14:29:29 00:14:31:20 TESTERS TOGETHER AND TELL THEM
00:14:31:20 00:14:32:04 WHAT HAPPENED.
00:14:32:04 00:14:34:05 >> IT'S DEFINITELY DIFFERENT.
00:14:34:05 00:14:35:09 I SEE IT MORE VISUALLY.
00:14:35:09 00:14:36:27 >> IT MAKES ME FEEL BAD THAT
00:14:36:27 00:14:37:26 THIS IS A PERSON WHO'S A
00:14:37:26 00:14:38:07 GATEKEEPER P.
00:14:38:07 00:14:41:22 >> I MEAN, SHE'S TELLING HIM
00:14:41:22 00:14:43:00 THESE ARE SOME OF THE NICEST
00:14:43:00 00:14:44:08 CLIENTS I'VE EVER WORKED WITH,
00:14:44:08 00:14:44:22 ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
00:14:44:22 00:14:46:23 STEERED ME AWAY FROM THAT.
00:14:46:23 00:14:48:17 AND NOT ONLY THAT IN THE
00:14:48:17 00:14:50:03 LISTINGS SHE SENT ME BUT ALSO IN
00:14:50:03 00:14:52:23 TELLING ME THAT ABOUT THE GANG
00:14:52:23 00:14:53:01 VIOLENCE.
00:14:53:01 00:14:55:04 >> SHE PUT ME INTO A DANGEROUS
00:14:55:04 00:14:55:13 ENVIRONMENT.
00:14:55:13 00:14:58:13 >> I FEEL LIKE THE AGENT JUST
00:14:58:13 00:14:58:27 DIDN'T CARE ABOUT ME.
00:14:58:27 00:15:01:16 >> SO I DON'T COME BACK UNTIL
00:15:01:16 00:15:02:12 YOU GET BACK HERE.
00:15:02:12 00:15:05:10 >> SHE COULDN'T EVEN TAKE ME OUT
00:15:05:10 00:15:07:24 UNTIL I GOT APPROVAL.
00:15:07:24 00:15:10:10 OH, WAS I LIED TO?
00:15:10:10 00:15:13:21 I WAS LIED TO.
00:15:13:21 00:15:14:03 WALKED OVER.
00:15:14:03 00:15:19:06 I'M STARTING TO WONDER IF MAYBE
00:15:19:06 00:15:20:03 THEY'RE DOING THAT BECAUSE THEY
00:15:20:03 00:15:22:00 THINK THAT'S WHERE YOU FEEL
00:15:22:00 00:15:22:09 COMFORTABLE.
00:15:22:09 00:15:23:12 I THOUGHT IT WAS ALL ABOUT
00:15:23:12 00:15:25:09 MONEY, TO BE HONEST, THAT'S THE
00:15:25:09 00:15:25:25 WAY THE WORLD WORKS.
00:15:25:25 00:15:27:26 THIS COUNTRY IS BASED ON MONEY.
00:15:27:26 00:15:29:24 IF I COME TO YOU WAY CERTAIN
00:15:29:24 00:15:32:08 AMOUNT OF MONEY TO GET A HOUSE,
00:15:32:08 00:15:33:07 WE HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF
00:15:33:07 00:15:34:06 MONEY, WHY NOT?
00:15:34:06 00:15:35:15 I DIDN'T EXPECT YOU GO THERE
00:15:35:15 00:15:36:17 BECAUSE YOU'RE SPANISH AND YOU
00:15:36:17 00:15:37:21 GO THERE BECAUSE YOU'RE WHITE.
00:15:37:21 00:15:41:09 I DIDN'T EXPECT THAT AT ALL.
00:15:41:09 00:15:42:10 >> TO DETERMINE WHETHER THERE
00:15:42:10 00:15:44:09 WAS POTENTIAL EVIDENCE OF FAIR
00:15:44:09 00:15:46:18 HOUSING VIOLATIONS, WE RELIED ON
00:15:46:18 00:15:50:18 THE JUDGMENT OF TWO NATIONALLY
00:15:50:18 00:15:53:01 RECOGNIZED EXPERTS IN THE FAIR
00:15:53:01 00:15:53:21 HOUSING FIELD.
00:15:53:21 00:15:55:11 >> I'VE COORDINATED MORE THAN
00:15:55:11 00:15:56:25 12,000 INVESTIGATIONS ACROSS THE
00:15:56:25 00:15:57:02 COUNTRY.
00:15:57:02 00:15:58:25 I HAVE PERSONALLY DONE OVER
00:15:58:25 00:15:59:15 1,500 TESTS.
00:15:59:15 00:16:01:01 I'VE BEEN NAMED AS A WITNESS IN
00:16:01:01 00:16:03:12 400 FAIR HOUSING LAWSUITS.
00:16:03:12 00:16:05:12 AND I'VE TESTIFIED 56 TIMES IN
00:16:05:12 00:16:07:04 STATE AND FEDERAL COURTS AROUND
00:16:07:04 00:16:07:19 THE COUNTRY.
00:16:07:19 00:16:10:21 SO YES, I HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE.
00:16:10:21 00:16:13:16 >> MY NAME IS BOB SCHRIM.
00:16:13:16 00:16:14:16 I'M A LAW PROFESSOR AT THE
00:16:14:16 00:16:15:24 UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY AND I'VE
00:16:15:24 00:16:16:26 BEEN A LAW PROFESSOR FOR A LONG
00:16:16:26 00:16:17:27 NUMBER OF YEARS.
00:16:17:27 00:16:19:17 ALL WE'RE ASKING IN THESE TESTS,
00:16:19:17 00:16:21:04 YOU GET TWO PEOPLE WHO COME IN
00:16:21:04 00:16:22:10 AND ASK FOR EXACTLY THE SAME
00:16:22:10 00:16:22:20 THING.
00:16:22:20 00:16:25:08 WHY DON'T YOU GIVE THEM THE SAME
00:16:25:08 00:16:25:15 LISTING?
00:16:25:15 00:16:27:21 WHY DON'T YOU PREQUALIFY THEM IN
00:16:27:21 00:16:28:26 EXACTLY THE SAME WAY?
00:16:28:26 00:16:31:28 IT'S NOT THAT BIG A BURDEN.
00:16:31:28 00:16:34:25 >> MOST COMMONLY THE EXPERTS
00:16:34:25 00:16:36:05 FOUND EVIDENCE OF POTENTIAL
00:16:36:05 00:16:39:06 STEERING OR DIRECTING TWO
00:16:39:06 00:16:40:03 TESTERS TO DISPARATE
00:16:40:03 00:16:44:06 NEIGHBORHOODS BASED ON RACE OR
00:16:44:06 00:16:44:14 ETHNICITY.
00:16:44:14 00:16:45:13 >> HOW ARE YOU DOING?
00:16:45:13 00:16:46:13 >> GOOD.
00:16:46:13 00:16:47:10 >> I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THE
00:16:47:10 00:16:49:05 OWNER AND WAITING FOR THE AGENT
00:16:49:05 00:16:49:17 TO SHOW UP.
00:16:49:17 00:16:51:22 >> YOU DON'T WANT TO BE -- I
00:16:51:22 00:16:55:24 DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD BE -- I
00:16:55:24 00:16:59:16 THINK YOU SHOULD PROBABLY
00:16:59:16 00:17:00:07 JUST --
00:17:00:07 00:17:02:06 >> AND I REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY
00:17:02:06 00:17:03:12 HE TALKED ABOUT STEERING.
00:17:03:12 00:17:06:07 >> YEAH, THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.
00:17:06:07 00:17:06:15 STEERING.
00:17:06:15 00:17:06:29 >> YEAH.
00:17:06:29 00:17:09:01 AND IN THE SAME BREATH HE
00:17:09:01 00:17:10:01 MENTIONED, WELL, STEERING'S BAD,
00:17:10:01 00:17:11:13 BUT THIS IS WHAT I'M GOING TO
00:17:11:13 00:17:11:25 DO.
00:17:11:25 00:17:13:10 >> THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED
00:17:13:10 00:17:13:18 STEERING.
00:17:13:18 00:17:15:10 YOU KNOW STEERING, LIKE
00:17:15:10 00:17:15:20 STEERING --
00:17:15:20 00:17:17:08 >> OH, LIKE A CAR OR SOMETHING?
00:17:17:08 00:17:21:04 >> NO, LIKE A HORSE.
00:17:21:04 00:17:23:29 >> IN TEST 78 EXPERTS SAW
00:17:23:29 00:17:25:13 EVIDENCE BOTH OF STEERING AND OF
00:17:25:13 00:17:29:01 THE DENIAL OF EQUAL SERVICE.
00:17:29:01 00:17:31:08 THAT AGENT DECLINED TO VIEW
00:17:31:08 00:17:32:25 RECORDINGS AS INVITED BY
00:17:32:25 00:17:38:06 "NEWSDAY," AND THE OWNER OF --
00:17:38:06 00:17:39:18 DID NOT RESPOND TO MULTIPLE
00:17:39:18 00:17:40:15 REQUESTS FOR COMMENT.
00:17:40:15 00:17:43:08 >> STEERING IS A PRACTICE WHERE
00:17:43:08 00:17:45:00 REAL ESTATE AGENTS OR OTHERS
00:17:45:00 00:17:46:25 ESSENTIALLY DISCOURAGE PEOPLE
00:17:46:25 00:17:47:27 FROM CONSIDERING CERTAIN HOUSING
00:17:47:27 00:17:50:26 OPPORTUNITIES OR NEIGHBORHOODS
00:17:50:26 00:17:51:27 BASED UPON THEIR RACE OR
00:17:51:27 00:17:54:18 NATIONAL ORIGIN OR SOME OTHER
00:17:54:18 00:17:54:25 FACTOR.
00:17:54:25 00:17:56:03 AND IT PERPETUATES SEGREGATION.
00:17:56:03 00:17:57:29 AND THIS PRACTICE HAS BEEN
00:17:57:29 00:18:00:08 ILLEGAL SINCE THE FAIR HOUSING
00:18:00:08 00:18:01:11 LAWS WERE PASSED.
00:18:01:11 00:18:02:19 >> AGENTS CAN STEER THROUGH
00:18:02:19 00:18:02:29 WORDS.
00:18:02:29 00:18:05:01 IT CAN BE DONE THROUGH ACTIONS.
00:18:05:01 00:18:06:26 WITHOUT THE PROSPECTS KNOWING
00:18:06:26 00:18:08:24 IT, I'M JUST GIVING THE WHITE
00:18:08:24 00:18:09:29 PROSPECT LISTINGS IN A WHITE
00:18:09:29 00:18:10:05 AREA.
00:18:10:05 00:18:13:24 >> IT'S REALLY AMAZING HOW
00:18:13:24 00:18:16:25 PEOPLE CAN REALLY EXPRESS TO A
00:18:16:25 00:18:18:03 REALTOR WHAT THEY DESIRE AND YET
00:18:18:03 00:18:21:13 THEY STILL GET TAKEN TO WHERE
00:18:21:13 00:18:25:03 THE REALTOR DESIRES TO TAKE
00:18:25:03 00:18:25:12 THEM.
00:18:25:12 00:18:27:29 >> IN REALTOR 101 YOU DO LEARN
00:18:27:29 00:18:31:19 IT'S AGAINST THE LAW TO STEER.
00:18:31:19 00:18:33:05 >> STEERING HAS DEVASTATING
00:18:33:05 00:18:33:20 CONSEQUENCES.
00:18:33:20 00:18:35:12 FOR THE CONSUMER IT LIMITS THEIR
00:18:35:12 00:18:36:16 HOUSING CHOICE TO CERTAIN AREAS.
00:18:36:16 00:18:39:06 IT LOCKS PEOPLE OUT OF
00:18:39:06 00:18:39:15 COMMUNITIES.
00:18:39:15 00:18:43:00 IT CAN DENY PEOPLE OF ALL RACES
00:18:43:00 00:18:45:08 THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENJOY THE
00:18:45:08 00:18:46:08 SOCIAL, PROFESSIONAL, AND
00:18:46:08 00:18:47:24 PERSONAL BENEFITS OF LIVING IN
00:18:47:24 00:18:50:06 AN INTEGRATED COMMUNITY.
00:18:50:06 00:18:53:11 AND IT SENDS A DISGRACEFUL
00:18:53:11 00:18:55:16 MESSAGE TO AFRICAN-AMERICAN
00:18:55:16 00:18:56:04 PEOPLE THAT THE REAL ESTATE
00:18:56:04 00:18:59:05 INDUSTRY, OR AT LEAST SOME
00:18:59:05 00:19:00:03 WITHIN THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY
00:19:00:03 00:19:02:17 STILL VIEW THEM AS LESS WORTHY.
00:19:02:17 00:19:03:25 >> AND WITH US NOW IS THE EDITOR
00:19:03:25 00:19:06:04 OF "NEWSDAY'S" SPECIAL
00:19:06:04 00:19:07:10 INVESTIGATION, LONG ISLAND
00:19:07:10 00:19:08:21 DIVIDED, VETERAN NEW YORK
00:19:08:21 00:19:12:20 JOURNALISTING ARTHUR BROWNE.
00:19:12:20 00:19:13:25 ARTHUR, WELCOME BACK TO THE
00:19:13:25 00:19:14:02 PROGRAM.
00:19:14:02 00:19:14:24 >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
00:19:14:24 00:19:19:18 >> ARTHUR, THIS WAS A
00:19:19:18 00:19:20:07 THREE-YEARLONG INVESTIGATION AND
00:19:20:07 00:19:21:06 UNFORTUNATELY A CONFIRMATION OF
00:19:21:06 00:19:22:15 A PROBLEM THAT HAS APPARENTLY
00:19:22:15 00:19:23:26 LONG EXISTED ON LONG ISLAND.
00:19:23:26 00:19:25:08 SO MY FIRST QUESTION IS WHY
00:19:25:08 00:19:26:08 HASN'T AN INVESTIGATION LIKE
00:19:26:08 00:19:26:28 THIS BEEN DONE BEFORE?
00:19:26:28 00:19:28:08 >> WELL, IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME
00:19:28:08 00:19:31:18 AND A LOT OF EFFORT TO DO IT.
00:19:31:18 00:19:34:22 AND PUBLIC AGENCIES, THE
00:19:34:22 00:19:36:24 GOVERNMENT, HAS NOT FUNDED THE
00:19:36:24 00:19:39:24 TYPE OF RESEARCH OR
00:19:39:24 00:19:40:10 INVESTIGATIONS THAT ARE
00:19:40:10 00:19:43:21 NECESSARY TO UNCOVER
00:19:43:21 00:19:44:10 DISCRIMINATION BY REAL ESTATE
00:19:44:10 00:19:45:28 AGENTS.
00:19:45:28 00:19:47:26 IT JUST HAS NOT BEEN FULLY
00:19:47:26 00:19:48:03 FUNDED.
00:19:48:03 00:19:51:15 >> TELL US WHAT YOU THINK WERE
00:19:51:15 00:19:53:26 THE MOST STRIKING OR THE MOST
00:19:53:26 00:19:55:25 SURPRISING FINDINGS THAT THESE
00:19:55:25 00:19:56:25 TESTS REVEALED.
00:19:56:25 00:19:59:12 >> WELL, THERE'S A NUMBER OF
00:19:59:12 00:19:59:18 THEM.
00:19:59:18 00:20:02:21 ONE IS THE EXTENT TO WHICH THERE
00:20:02:21 00:20:05:23 APPEARED TO HAVE BEEN EVIDENCE
00:20:05:23 00:20:07:28 OF DISPARATE TREATMENT OF
00:20:07:28 00:20:08:12 MINORITIES.
00:20:08:12 00:20:09:27 WHEN YOU HAVE A CIRCUMSTANCE
00:20:09:27 00:20:14:21 WHERE IN OUR TEST, OUR TESTING
00:20:14:21 00:20:15:08 SAMPLE, AFRICAN-AMERICANS
00:20:15:08 00:20:18:11 EXPERIENCED EVIDENCE OF
00:20:18:11 00:20:19:04 DISPARATE TREATMENT ALMOST HALF
00:20:19:04 00:20:21:16 THE TIME THAT THEY MET WITH THE
00:20:21:16 00:20:22:29 REAL ESTATE AGENTS, IT'S A QUITE
00:20:22:29 00:20:25:02 HIGH NUMBER I THINK.
00:20:25:02 00:20:26:03 AND IT SIGNALS THAT THERE MAY BE
00:20:26:03 00:20:30:05 A GREAT RISK TO
00:20:30:05 00:20:30:25 AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN THE HOME
00:20:30:25 00:20:33:00 BUYING MARKET ON LONG ISLAND
00:20:33:00 00:20:35:00 THAT THEY MAY NOT BE TREATED
00:20:35:00 00:20:35:11 FAIRLY.
00:20:35:11 00:20:38:13 SO THE EXTENT OF THAT
00:20:38:13 00:20:39:17 NUMERICALLY, FOR HISPANICS IT
00:20:39:17 00:20:40:11 WAS 39%.
00:20:40:11 00:20:43:07 FOR ASIANS IT WAS 19%.
00:20:43:07 00:20:44:16 THOSE ARE NOT NUMBERS TO
00:20:44:16 00:20:44:24 MINIMIZE.
00:20:44:24 00:20:47:21 THOSE TWO ARE SERIOUS NUMBERS.
00:20:47:21 00:20:49:22 AT THE SAME TIME SOME OF THE
00:20:49:22 00:20:55:02 AGENTS DISPLAYED BEHAVIOR THAT
00:20:55:02 00:20:55:20 WAS QUITE STARK.
00:20:55:20 00:20:57:25 THE DOCUMENTARY, WHICH WAS DONE
00:20:57:25 00:21:01:27 BY A TERRIFIC VIDEOGRAPHER NAMED
00:21:01:27 00:21:05:05 JEFF BASINGER, CAPTURED SOME OF
00:21:05:05 00:21:07:10 IT, WHERE AN AGENT WOULD TELL A
00:21:07:10 00:21:08:09 WHITE BUYER THAT THEY SHOULD NOT
00:21:08:09 00:21:10:04 LIVE IN A PARTICULAR AREA
00:21:10:04 00:21:12:16 BECAUSE OF GANG VIOLENCE BUT
00:21:12:16 00:21:15:20 WOULD TELL THE BLACK BUYER
00:21:15:20 00:21:16:09 THAT --
00:21:16:09 00:21:17:12 >> THAT'S A GREAT PLACE FOR
00:21:17:12 00:21:18:00 THEM.
00:21:18:00 00:21:19:06 >> YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT PLACE
00:21:19:06 00:21:20:04 FOR THEM.
00:21:20:04 00:21:20:24 SO SOME OF THOSE DIFFERENCES
00:21:20:24 00:21:21:10 WERE VERY STARK.
00:21:21:10 00:21:23:13 >> YOU SAID AT THE OUTSET THAT
00:21:23:13 00:21:24:29 THE STATE HASN'T CONDUCTED
00:21:24:29 00:21:26:16 INVESTIGATIONS LIKE THESE, THAT
00:21:26:16 00:21:29:00 THE LAW ENFORCE -- THE ENFORCERS
00:21:29:00 00:21:30:16 OF THE FAIR HOUSING LAWS
00:21:30:16 00:21:31:14 APPARENTLY ARE NOT DOING THIS.
00:21:31:14 00:21:33:15 FIRST OF ALL, WHO ARE THE
00:21:33:15 00:21:34:15 ENFORCERS OF THESE LAWS AND WHY
00:21:34:15 00:21:35:13 AREN'T THEY DOING THIS?
00:21:35:13 00:21:37:17 >> WELL, THEY WENT ALL THE WAY
00:21:37:17 00:21:38:06 FROM THE FEDERAL TO THE LOCAL
00:21:38:06 00:21:40:24 GOVERNMENT THROUGH THE STATE.
00:21:40:24 00:21:44:13 THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT THE
00:21:44:13 00:21:49:08 LAW IS CLEAR AND THAT THE LAW
00:21:49:08 00:21:50:29 PROVIDES ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITIES
00:21:50:29 00:21:52:24 WITH THE POWER TO TAKE ON
00:21:52:24 00:21:53:05 DISCRIMINATION.
00:21:53:05 00:21:55:17 BUT PAIRED TESTING IS DIFFICULT,
00:21:55:17 00:21:59:05 AS I SAID, AND TIME-CONSUMING.
00:21:59:05 00:22:02:17 AND YOU KNOW, YOU COULD THEORIZE
00:22:02:17 00:22:05:06 THAT SINCE NOBODY WAS DOING IT
00:22:05:06 00:22:08:00 TO ANY GREAT DEGREE IT WAS KIND
00:22:08:00 00:22:08:28 OF ACCEPTED THAT THERE WAS --
00:22:08:28 00:22:10:28 >> WHEN YOU SAY NOBODY WAS DOING
00:22:10:28 00:22:15:11 IT, PAIRED TESTING, RIGHT?
00:22:15:11 00:22:16:19 I THINK ONE OF THE IMPORTANT
00:22:16:19 00:22:18:21 OUTCOMES OF THE "NEWSDAY"
00:22:18:21 00:22:21:15 INVESTIGATION WAS THAT THERE WAS
00:22:21:15 00:22:23:13 EVIDENCE OF HIDDEN
00:22:23:13 00:22:26:00 DISCRIMINATION TAKING PLACE ON A
00:22:26:00 00:22:29:14 DAY-BY-DAY BASIS THAT WAS GOING
00:22:29:14 00:22:30:12 UNSEEN BECAUSE IF I A WHITE
00:22:30:12 00:22:32:06 PERSON GO TO BUY A HOUSE AND A
00:22:32:06 00:22:33:09 BLACK PERSON GOES TO BUY A
00:22:33:09 00:22:34:07 HOUSE, NEITHER ONE OF US WILL
00:22:34:07 00:22:36:19 KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER
00:22:36:19 00:22:36:26 PERSON.
00:22:36:26 00:22:37:24 >> ALL THE MORE REASON WHY THOSE
00:22:37:24 00:22:39:16 PEOPLE IN CHARGE OF ENFORCING
00:22:39:16 00:22:43:07 THESE LAWS NEEDED TO DO WHAT YOU
00:22:43:07 00:22:48:06 DID WITH YOUR OWN --
00:22:48:06 00:22:49:13 >> IT WAS NOT -- IT WAS
00:22:49:13 00:22:51:18 EXPENSIVE AND TIME-CONSUMING.
00:22:51:18 00:22:53:00 >> I MEAN, IT WAS REALLY A
00:22:53:00 00:22:54:28 DETAILED EFFORT, AMAZING EFFORT.
00:22:54:28 00:22:57:06 BUT YOU KNOW, ABOUT ENFORCEMENT,
00:22:57:06 00:22:59:05 ONE SPECIFIC AREA.
00:22:59:05 00:23:01:10 ON THE FILM WE SEE -- IN THE
00:23:01:10 00:23:04:06 FILM WE SEE A GUY, A BROKER
00:23:04:06 00:23:07:06 HIMSELF WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR
00:23:07:06 00:23:09:05 TEACHING OTHER BROKERS THE FAIR
00:23:09:05 00:23:10:27 HOUSING LAWS, HOW TO ALLEGEDLY
00:23:10:27 00:23:12:08 OR THEORETICALLY, HOW TO FOLLOW
00:23:12:08 00:23:13:19 THE FAIR HOUSING LAWS, AND HE
00:23:13:19 00:23:16:23 SAYS AT ONE POINT, LOOK, SELLERS
00:23:16:23 00:23:17:27 ARE TELLING AGENTS, BROKERS ALL
00:23:17:27 00:23:19:03 THE TIME THAT THEY DON'T WANT
00:23:19:03 00:23:20:15 THEIR HOUSE BEING SOLD TO A
00:23:20:15 00:23:21:15 CERTAIN GROUP OF PEOPLE.
00:23:21:15 00:23:23:24 THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY LESS
00:23:23:24 00:23:24:01 ILLEGAL.
00:23:24:01 00:23:24:12 >> CORRECT.
00:23:24:12 00:23:26:27 >> BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS
00:23:26:27 00:23:32:06 AN AGENT KNOWS THAT IF HE OR SHE
00:23:32:06 00:23:32:25 TURNS DOWN THIS JOB SOME OTHER
00:23:32:25 00:23:33:13 AGENT IS GOING TO COME RIGHT
00:23:33:13 00:23:35:21 BEHIND THEM AND PROBABLY PICK UP
00:23:35:21 00:23:35:28 THE JOB.
00:23:35:28 00:23:37:13 SO WHAT ARE THE AGENCIES -- I
00:23:37:13 00:23:40:10 MEAN WHAT ARE THE LAW
00:23:40:10 00:23:42:17 ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES HAVE TO DO
00:23:42:17 00:23:45:24 TO ELIMINATE THIS NEGATIVE
00:23:45:24 00:23:46:19 DISCRIMINATION ENFORCER?
00:23:46:19 00:23:48:13 >> WELL, AGENTS DID SAY THAT.
00:23:48:13 00:23:51:13 SOME AGENTS DID SUGGEST THAT
00:23:51:13 00:23:54:22 THEY WERE BEING FORCED TO STEER,
00:23:54:22 00:23:57:23 IF YOU WILL, BY THEIR CLIENTS.
00:23:57:23 00:24:00:19 NOW, IF THAT'S THE CASE, THAT IS
00:24:00:19 00:24:03:28 PURELY ATTITUDINAL BY THE BUYERS
00:24:03:28 00:24:05:12 AND I DON'T KNOW THAT GOVERNMENT
00:24:05:12 00:24:06:05 ENFORCEMENT COULD DEAL WITH THAT
00:24:06:05 00:24:06:21 AT ALL.
00:24:06:21 00:24:10:24 THAT'S A MINDSET CHANGE.
00:24:10:24 00:24:12:24 THE -- WHAT GOVERNMENT CAN DO IS
00:24:12:24 00:24:15:05 SIMPLY ENFORCE THE LAWS THAT
00:24:15:05 00:24:23:20 WOULD PREVENT A REAL ESTATE
00:24:23:20 00:24:24:08 AGENT FROM SUCCUMBING TO THAT
00:24:24:08 00:24:24:20 TYPE OF PRESSURE.
00:24:24:20 00:24:25:08 IF THEY KNEW THAT THERE WERE
00:24:25:08 00:24:25:27 WATCHDOGS OUT THERE WATCHING
00:24:25:27 00:24:26:17 OVER WHAT THEY WERE DOING --
00:24:26:17 00:24:26:28 >> THAT'S RIGHT.
00:24:26:28 00:24:27:23 >> -- AND THAT THE PERSON IS
00:24:27:23 00:24:28:26 SITTING THERE TALKING TO THEM
00:24:28:26 00:24:32:00 THAT WAY COULD BE A TESTER SUCH
00:24:32:00 00:24:34:11 AS THE ONES THEY USE, MAYBE THEY
00:24:34:11 00:24:35:16 WON GET INVOLVED IN IT.
00:24:35:16 00:24:36:21 >> ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THE
00:24:36:21 00:24:38:26 STATE AND IN LONG ISLAND, HOW
00:24:38:26 00:24:39:16 HAVE THEY RESPONDED TO THIS?
00:24:39:16 00:24:43:08 >> WELL, THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN
00:24:43:08 00:24:45:17 SWIFT AND IN A LOT OF WAYS
00:24:45:17 00:24:45:28 OVERWHELMING.
00:24:45:28 00:24:48:10 THE GOVERNOR, THE STATE ATTORNEY
00:24:48:10 00:24:49:19 GENERAL, THE TWO COUNTY
00:24:49:19 00:24:52:21 EXECUTIVES, NASSAU AND SUFFOLK
00:24:52:21 00:24:55:23 HAVE ALL GOTTEN INVOLVED WITH
00:24:55:23 00:24:59:16 EITHER INVESTIGATIONS OR
00:24:59:16 00:25:01:21 PROMISES OF INCREASED FUNDING OR
00:25:01:21 00:25:02:28 INCREASED ENFORCEMENT.
00:25:02:28 00:25:04:12 AND THE STATE SENATE IS HOLDING
00:25:04:12 00:25:06:25 A HEARING ON LONG ISLAND ABOUT
00:25:06:25 00:25:07:00 IT.
00:25:07:00 00:25:08:07 >> GREAT IMPACT.
00:25:08:07 00:25:09:27 >> YEAH.
00:25:09:27 00:25:11:24 >> SO IT COULD MEAN THERE'S
00:25:11:24 00:25:12:13 REFORM LEGISLATION.
00:25:12:13 00:25:13:01 WE DON'T KNOW.
00:25:13:01 00:25:15:08 >> WHAT ABOUT THE 12 REAL ESTATE
00:25:15:08 00:25:16:07 AGENCIES THAT YOU TESTED?
00:25:16:07 00:25:17:22 HOW HAVE THEY RESPONDED?
00:25:17:22 00:25:20:05 >> THEY'VE LARGELY BEEN MUTE
00:25:20:05 00:25:21:28 ABOUT IT.
00:25:21:28 00:25:23:13 SOME RESPONDED -- WE INFORMED
00:25:23:13 00:25:25:18 THEM ALL OF WHAT THE FINDINGS
00:25:25:18 00:25:25:26 WERE.
00:25:25:26 00:25:28:04 SOME OFFERED STATEMENTS THAT --
00:25:28:04 00:25:31:22 GENERAL STATEMENTS THAT THEY
00:25:31:22 00:25:33:00 ABIDE BY THE FAIR HOUSING LAW OR
00:25:33:00 00:25:35:23 THEY TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
00:25:35:23 00:25:37:25 ONE CAME BACK AND PRETTY -- YOU
00:25:37:25 00:25:39:23 KNOW, THEY CHALLENGED US TO
00:25:39:23 00:25:41:04 DOCUMENT WHAT WE HAD DONE, AND
00:25:41:04 00:25:45:08 WE FELT WE HAD DONE THAT OKAY.
00:25:45:08 00:25:48:19 SO OTHERWISE, BUT IT'S BEEN
00:25:48:19 00:25:49:12 MUTED, IF YOU WILL.
00:25:49:12 00:25:51:15 THERE HASN'T BEEN A LOT OF
00:25:51:15 00:25:52:17 UPRISING ABOUT IT IN THE
00:25:52:17 00:25:54:23 INDUSTRY THAT WE ARE AWARE OF.
00:25:54:23 00:25:56:17 >> WELL, ARTHUR, THIS IS A
00:25:56:17 00:25:57:07 POWERFUL, POWERFUL INVESTIGATION
00:25:57:07 00:25:58:07 YOU ENGAGED IN.
00:25:58:07 00:26:00:11 IT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT WE
00:26:00:11 00:26:03:19 IN JOURNALISM GET INVOLVED IN
00:26:03:19 00:26:04:27 JOURNALISM TO BE ABLE TO DO.
00:26:04:27 00:26:06:05 CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR WORK.
00:26:06:05 00:26:07:19 AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOING TO
00:26:07:19 00:26:08:05 MAKE SOME CHANGES.
00:26:08:05 00:26:08:26 >> WE'LL SEE.
00:26:08:26 00:26:10:26 >> THANK YOU.
00:26:10:26 00:26:11:20 >> THANK YOU.
00:26:11:20 00:26:12:13 >> Announcer: "METROFOCUS" IS
00:26:12:13 00:26:14:04 MADE POSSIBLE BY -- JAMES AND
00:26:14:04 00:26:17:03 MERYL TISCH, SUE AND EDGAR
00:26:17:03 00:26:19:08 WACHENHEIM III, THE SYLVIA A.
00:26:19:08 00:26:21:21 AND SIMON B.POIDA PROGRAMMING
00:26:21:21 00:26:23:10 ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMIDIZ
00:26:23:10 00:26:26:00 M, BERNARD AND IRENE SCHWARTZ,
00:26:26:00 00:26:27:00 BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND
00:26:27:00 00:26:33:18 BY --

Funders

MetroFocus is made possible by James and Merryl Tisch, Sue and Edgar Wachenheim III, the Sylvia A. and Simon B. Poyta Programming Endowment to Fight Anti-Semitism, Bernard and Irene Schwartz, Rosalind P. Walter, Barbara Hope Zuckerberg, Jody and John Arnhold, the Cheryl and Philip Milstein Family, Janet Prindle Seidler, Judy and Josh Weston and the Dr. Robert C. and Tina Sohn Foundation.

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