SPECIAL REPORT: COMMUNITY TENSIONS AND THE NYPD

November 08, 2019 at 5:30 am

Just days ago, protesters stormed New York City streets as two separate videos of police altercations in the subway with young men went viral. Was it proper policing or police brutality? We’ll take you inside life behind the badge and on the streets with two former NYPD officers. We’ll also discuss whether the NYPD is under siege and if the new commissioner will be able to fix the damage.

Aired on November 7, 2019. 

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PROTESTERS STORM THE STREETS AS
THESE VIDEOS OF POLICE
ALTERCATIONS WITH A 19-YEAR-OLD
AND A MINOR GO VIRAL.
WITH THE INCIDENTS UNDER
INVESTIGATION POTATO SIDES GO ON
THE ATTACK.
WAS IT PROPER POLICING OR POLICE
BRUTALITY?
THEN LIFE BEHIND THE BADGE AND
ON THE STREETS.
IS THE NYPD UNDER SIEGE?
AS A NEW COMMISSIONER TAKES THE
HELM.
WILL HE BE ABLE TO FIX THE
DAMAGE?
TWO FORMER NEW YORK CITY COPS
JOIN US TO DISCUSS THE DANGERS,
THE DISRESPECT, THE ACCUSATIONS,
AND THE POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.
THOSE ISSUES AND MORE AS THIS
SPECIAL EDITION OF "METROFOCUS"
STARTS RIGHT NOW.
>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH
RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND
JENNA FLANAGAN.
>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE
BY
JAMES AND MERRYL TISCH,
SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III,
THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA
PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT
ANTI-SEMITISM.
BERNARD AND IRENE SCHWARTZ,
BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,
AND BY --
>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO
"METROFOCUS."
I'M G
I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.
THE NYPD HAS BEEN DOMINATING THE
HEADLINES WITH NO SIGNS OF
SLOWING DOWN.
TWO SEPARATE INS ACCIDENTS
INVOLVING POLICE AND YOUNG MEN
OF COLOR HAVE GONE VIRAL.
ADRIAN NAPIER IS SEEN WITH HIS
HANDS UP BEING APPREHENDED BY
MULTIPLE COPS ON A SUBWAY TRAIN.
15-YEAR-OLD BENNINGJAMIN MARSHA
HE IS SUING THE NYPD FOR
$5 MILLION AND THE OFFICER WHO
TOOK THE SWING IS ON DESK DUTY
AS THEIS INCIDENT IS INVESTIGAT.
IT SPARKED PROTEST AGAINST
POLICE.
HUNDREDS RALLIED.
MANY JUMPED TURNSTILES AND MANY
CHA
CHANTED ANTI-UP, PUNCH A CLOCK.
POLICE ARE FRAMING THESE ARRESTS
AS ROUTINE CASES AS FAIR BEATING
ENFORCEMENT WHILE THE POLICE SAY
THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE
FARES.
AND NOW THAT JAMES O'NEILL IS
STEPPING TOWN AS TOP COP, WILL
HIS REPLACEMENT, DERMOT SHEA, BE
ABLE TO CONTROL THE DAMAGE?
JOINING ME TO PUT THIS INTO
PERFORMANCE IS GRAHAM
WEATHERSPOON A RETIRED NYPD
DETECTIVE WHO FORMERLY SERVED IN
THE DEPARTMENT'S TRANSIT UNIT
AND A FOUNDING MEMBER OF A
HUNDRED BLACKS IN LAW
ENFORCEMENT WHO CARE.
AND DARRIN PORCHER, A RETIRED
NYPD LIEUTENANT WHO WORKED IN
THE BRONX, TRANSIT AND
WASHINGTON HEIGHTS AND HAS A
HISTORY OF TRAINING CADETS AT
THE POLICE ACADEMY.
WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.
THAT'S A LOT TO COVER.
OF COURSE, WE HAVE A LOT TO TALK
ABOUT ON THE SHOW.
FIRST I WANT TO GET TO THESE
MAJOR INCIDENTS THAT HAVE GONE
VIRAL THAT EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE
TALKING ABOUT.
RIGHT NOW WE ARE JUST GOING TO
TOSS TO THE FIRST, A 15-YEAR-OLD
BENJAMIN MARSHALL WHO WAS SEEN
IN A VIRAL VIDEO BEING PUNCHED
IN THE FACE BY A POLICE OFFICER.
WE WILL JUST THROW TO THAT VERY
QUICKLY.

ALL RIGHT.
SO, OF COURSE, WE KNOW ALL VIRAL
VIDEOS DON'T TELL THE ENTIRE
STORY.
FROM BOTH OF YOU I WOULD LIKE TO
GET YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON HOW YOU
SEE THIS VIDEO.
DARRIN.
>> WHEN WE SEE A VIDEO WHERE USE
OF FORCE IS BEING EMPLOYED IT'S
ALWAYS TROUBLING.
THERE IS NEVER A GOOD WAY TO
VIEW USE OF FORCE.
WE HAVE IT TAKE IN CONSIDERATION
WHENEVER WE SEE A VIDEO SUCH AS
THIS ONE, WE GENERALLY SEE A
SNIPPET.
WE NEED A COMPREHENSIVE OVERVIEW
OF WHAT THE PARTICULAR INCIDENT
IS.
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I
PRAISE AND TO TAUGHT THE BODY
CAMERAS.
IT INTROCUS TRANSPARENCY AS WHEN
THE INCIDENT STARTED, THE
BEGINNING, AND END OF IT.
I REVERT BACK TO MY EXPERIENCE
AS A LIEUTENANT IN THE INTERNAL
AFFAIRS BUOWE IN THE NYPD.
OFTENTIMES I HAD INSTANCES WHERE
A VIDEO OR SNIPPET WAS
INTRODUCED AND IT APPEARED THERE
WAS A LEVEL OF MISCONDUCT
COMMITTED BY THE OFFICER.
WE HAD TO CONDUCT A MORE
COMPREHENSIVE INVESTIGATION TO
DETERMINE WHAT PRECEDED THE
INCIDENT, WHAT HAPPENED AND WHAT
ENDED IT.
THAT BEING SAID, THIS ALWAYS IS
THIS INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS OR
INTERNAL INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS
THAT WILL PROVIDE THE FINAL
OUTCOME AS TO WHAT THE
ASSESSMENT FOR THE DEPARTMENT
WOULD BE.
I UNDERSTAND THERE IS GOING TO
BE A LEVEL OF OUTRAGE FROM THE
COMMUNITY.
BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS
WE NEED TO LET IT PLAY ITS
COURSE AND THAT'S GOING TO BE
THE DETERMINATIVE FACTOR AS TO
WHAT HAPPENED AND WHAT DIDN'T
HAPPEN AND THEN ONCE WE GET THE
FINDINGS ON THIS CASE BASED ON
THE DUE PROCESS, THEN WE CAN
MAKE A MORE CREDIBLE ASSESSMENT
AS TOO WH WHAT WE HAVE IN PLAY.
>> GRAHAM?
>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT
CIVILIANS DO VIDEO WHEN AN
INCIDENT OCCURS NOT ONLY FOR THE
PROTECTION OF THE INDIVIDUAL
INVOLVED, BUT -- AND CAN BE FOR
THE POLICE OFFICER, AS WELL.
A CAMERA SITTING ON MY CHEST IS
ONLY GOING TO GIVE ME ONE ANGLE.
AS WE SAW IN THE ERIC GARNER
CASE, THE YOUNG MAN THAT SHOT
THAT VIDEO, WE SAW A PANORAMIC
VIEW OF WHAT THE POLICE OFFICERS
WERE DOING.
IF I HAVE A CAMERA ON MY CHEST,
YOU CAN'T SEE WHAT I'M DOING
BELOW THE LINE OF THE CAMERA.
AN INDEPENDENT LINE AND AT THAT
IT'S NOT A PANORAMIC SHOT.
AS I LOOKED AT THE VIDEO I SAW
THINGS WHICH REALLY DISTURBED
ME.
>> JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR.
WHICH VIDEO ARE WE TALKING
ABOUT?
>> THE ONE AT JAY STREET WHERE
THE YOUNG MAN WAS STRUCK IN THE
FACE.
IN THE EARLIER FRAME I SEE A GUY
RUNNING UP TO A FELLOW AND JUST
STRAIGHT OUT HITTING HIM.
THAT YOUNG FELLOW WAS FACING THE
CAMERA.
A FEW SECONDS LATER THE OFFICER
COMES BACK AND ATTACKS A SECOND
YOUNG MAN.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE SAME
OFFICER.
BUT IT WAS A LIEUTENANT IN THE
WHITE SHIRT.
HE IS TRYING TO GET EVERYTHING
IN CONTROL AND THE OFFICER IS
TRYING TO MOVE THE KID BACK.
AN ARREST IS BEING MADE.
WHEN THAT SECOND OFFICER CAME
AND PUNCHED THE FELLOW IN THE
FACE, WHAT WAS THAT?
YOU KNOW, IN HAVING BODY
CAMERAS, IT'S GOING TO GIVE AN
ANGLE AND IT'S GOING TO GIVE A
LIMITED SCOPE OF VIEW FOR THAT
CAMERA.
SAME THING WITH THE PERSON DOING
THE VIDEO INDEPENDENTLY.
THAT VIDEO DOESN'T GIVE YOU A
180-DEGREE PANORAMIC VIEW.
SO HAVING THE VIDEO IS
IMPORTANT.
IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO
STEP BACK OUT OF THE MELEE.
WE HAD A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE
THERE.
WE HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH TEENS
OVER THE LAST WEEK, WITH REGARD
TO THIS ISSUE, AND I HAVE TOLD
THEM WHEN THERE IS A MAJOR
SITUATION LIKE THIS, YOU NEED TO
STEP BACK.
YOU CANNOT BE A WITNESS HAD YOU
BECOME THE DEFENDANT.
>> WELL, YOUI WANT TO TAKE THAT
IMPORTANT POINT HOW IT'S
IMPORTANT TO STEP BACK AND ASK
HOW THAT MESSAGE WOULD FIT WHEN
WE HAVE OTHER COMMUNITY LEADERS,
IN SOME CASES POLITICIANS, WHO
ARE HAVING UNDERSTANDABLY VERY
EMOTIONAL REACTIONS AS OTHER
PEOPLE ARE TO SOME OF THESE
INCIDENTS.
WE HAVE ONE FROM BROOKLYN
BOROUGH PRESIDENT ERIC ADAMS.
HE HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE AND
HE HAD THIS REACTION.
>>> I'M TRULY CONCERNED ABOUT
WHAT I SAW ON THAT VIDEO AND I'M
GLAD THAT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY
IS GOING TO LOOK AT IT.
YOU CANNOT OPENLY PUNCH A YOUNG
PERSON IN THE FACE MERELY
BECAUSE YOU ARE CAUGHT UP IN THE
AGGRESSION OF THE MOMENT.
THAT IS HOW YOU HAVE DANGEROUS
ENCOUNTERS TAKE PLACE.
THAT SITUATION COULD HAVE TURNED
INTO A RRIOT IF THE OFFICERS DIT
FOLLOW THE APPROPRIATE PROTOCOL.
>> SO, AGAIN, IT MAKES A LOT OF
SENSE TO TELL PEOPLE YOU HAVE TO
STEP BACK.
YOU HAVE TO LET THE PROCESS PLAY
OUT.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME THERE IS SO
MUCH EMOTION AND SO MUCH HISTORY
WITH PARTICULARLY PEOPLE OF
COLOR AND THE NYPD THAT IT CAN
BE HARD TO DO THAT.
SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON
SOMEONE LIKE THE BROOKLYN
BOROUGH PRESIDENT STEPPING IN
AND SHARING HIS THOUGHTS?
>> THERE HAS BEEN A STATE OF
ACRIMONY BETWEEN THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT AND THE COMMUNITIES
OF COLOR FOR A LONG TIME.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT JUST
EXISTS IN NEW YORK CITY.
THIS IS A NATIONWIDE CRISIS.
WE SHOULD HAVE A SYMBIOTIC
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN POLICE AND
COMMUNITY AND NOT SEPARATED.
SO OFTENTIMES WHEN WE HAVE A
SITUATION SUCH AS THE BROOKLYN
BOROUGH PRESIDENT WHO IS A
FORMER CAPTAIN IN THE NYPD
MAKING A STATEMENT REQUESTING
THE MODIFICATION OF THE OFFICER,
I THINK I'M SOMEWHAT OPPOSED TO
THAT.
I AM A STRONG PROPONENT OF LET'S
LET DUE PROCESS PLAY OUT BEFORE
WE MAKE THAT ASSESSMENT.
OFTENTIMES WE, WHEN WE MAKE
STATEMENTS LIKE THIS, WHAT WE DO
IS WE RILE THE BASE ON BOTH
SIDES.
I THINK CALMER HEADS NEED TO
PREVAIL.
A LOT OF TIMES WE NEED TO SIT
DOWN, BOTH PARTIES, AND TRY TO
APPRISE THE SOLUTION AS TO HOW
WE CAN MOVE FORWARD FROM A
COMMUNITY PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE
POLICE ARE PUBLIC SERVANTS.
AT THE SAME TOKEN, WE DON'T WANT
TO EX PASPERATE THE SITUATION.
AFTER HE FELT THIS WAY, I CAN
UNDERSTAND IT.
I THOUGHT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN
A TABLE TOP INFORMATION EXCHANGE
BETWEEN THE BROOKLYN BOROUGH
PRESIDENT AND THE POLICE
COMMISSIONER JAMES O'NEILL
BECAUSE THE TWO HAVE A
RELATIONSHIP.
AND THEN UPON CONCLUSION OF THAT
MEETING, THAT'S WHEN THE TWO
ENTITIES COULD HAVE INTRODUCED
WHAT THEY FEEL ON A PARTICULAR
INCIDENT WAS.
THAT'S MY ASSESSMENT OF THE
SITUATION.
>> GRAHAM?
>> I TEND TO AGREE.
I KNOW BOTH PARTIES.
I KNOW ERIC.
I KNOW JAMES.
AND I HAVE BEEN THE VICTIM OF
POLICE ABUSE AS A CHILD.
I
THIS KNOT ON MY HEAD I GOT FROM
A COP IN THE 75th PRECINCT WHEN
I WAS ABOUT 7 YEARS OLD.
I HAVE BEEN ATTACKED WHILE
WORKING IN MIDTOWN MANHATTAN.
I KNOW THE EMOTIONS VERY
PERSONALLY.
BUT AS HE STATED, EMOTIONS RUN
HIGH.
AND WE CAN'T ALLOW EMOTIONS TO
REALLY OVERTAKE US BECAUSE THEN
WE ARE NOT THINKING PROPERLY.
BUT I THINK THAT WHEN ERIC SPOKE
HE SPOKE MAYBE SOMEWHAT OUT OF
DISGUST AND THE RAGE.
WE AS BLACK MEN IN LAW
ENFORCEMENT, WE DON'T BECOME
BLUE.
WE DON'T BECOME BLUE.
WE REMAIN BLACK MEN.
BECAUSE OUTSIDE OF THAT UNIFORM,
YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER BLACK MAN
ON THE STREET.
AND WE'VE HAD OFF-DUTY POLICE
OFFICERS SHOT TO DEATH HERE IN
NEW
NEW YORK CITY.
SO WE UNDERSTAND IT VERY WELL.
WE HAVE SUFFERED ABUSES FROM THE
DEPARTMENT.
I AM NOT GOING TO GET INTO ALL
OF THOSE THINGS, BUT WHAT I SAW
WAS VERY DISTURBING.
BUT IN THE SAME SENSE WE WANT TO
MAINTAIN A LEVEL OF CALMNESS TO
PROCEED CLEARLY.
WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES, THERE
HAS GOT TO BE SOMEONE AT THE
TABLE TALKING IN ORDER TO BRING
ABOUT CHANGE.
CHANGE IS NOT NECESSARILY GOING
TO COME FROM DEMONSTRATIONS.
I WAS IN GIULIANI'S OFFICE AFTER
A SHOOTING.
WE WERE IN A MEETING.
HE AND I, THE QUICK STATEMENT
FROM GIULIANI WAS LET THEM
PROTEST.
THEY'LL VENT.
AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO
BUSINESS AS USUAL.
THAT'S WHAT GIULIANI SAID.
WE NEED MORE THAN PROTESTS.
WE NEED CHANGES IN POLICY.
WE NEED ACCOUNTABILITY.
AND THAT IS WHAT COMES AT THE
SIT-DOWN AT THE TABLE, AS YOU
MENTIONED, SITTING WITH THE
COMMISSIONER TO BRING ABOUT
THOSE NECESSARY CHANGES.
NOW, GRANTED, WHAT I SAW, I
DIDN'T LIKE AND I DON'T BELIEVE
THAT OFFICER SHOULD BE ON
PATROL.
HE SHOULD BE MODIFIED.
HE SHOULD BE PUT ON RESTRICTED
DUTY UNTIL ALL OF THIS IS WORKED
OUT BECAUSE, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW
WHAT PRECIPITATED THE INCIDENT.
I HAVE HEARD DIFFERENT STORIES.
>> WE HAVE ANOTHER INCIDENT
WHICH WE SEEM TO HAVE A LITTLE
BIT OF A BACKGROUND OF, AND THAT
IS THAT A YOUNG MAN, THERE WAS A
CALL THAT WENT IN A YOUNG MAN
E
ENDED UP BEING ADRIAN NAPIER,
ALLEGED TO HAVE HAD A GUN.
THE COPS CHASED HIM.
HE RAN DOWN TO THE SUBWAY.
ALLEGED JUMPED THE TURNSTILE.
GOT ON THE TRAIN.
OFFICERS AT THE FOLLOWING STOP
PROCEEDED TO PICK HIM UP AND
THIS IS WHAT WAS CAUGHT ON
CITIZEN VIDEO AS WELL.

>> SO AGAIN WE SEE ANOTHER
INCIDENT OF A YOUNG MAN OF COLOR
BEING VERY AGGRESSIVELY TAKEN
DOWN AND ARRESTED.
AGAIN IS THIS SOMETHING WHERE WE
NEED TO STEP BACK AND SORT OF
UNDERSTAND THE BIGGER PICTURE
THAT THIS SITUATION HAPPENED IN,
OR IS THIS SOMETHING WHERE,
AGAIN, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO REACT
EMOTIONALLY WHEN THEY SEE
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
>> I THINK WE NEED TO JUDGE EACH
IP STANCE ON A CASE-BY-CASE
BASIS.
WHEN YOU HAVE AN OFFICER THAT
RESPONDED TO SOMETHING THAT
REFER TO AS A GUN RUN AND THAT
CONSISTS OF AN INDIVIDUAL THAT'S
IN POSSESSION OF A FIREARM, IT
REALLY UPS THE ANTE IN TERMS OF
THAT OFFICER'S RESPONSE.
THEY ARE NOW THINKING FROM A
PERSPECTIVE OF HOW CAN I RESPOND
TO THIS SAFELY?
HOW CAN I REMOVE A DANGEROUS
WEAPON FROM THE STREET THAT CAN
POSSIBLY HARM ANOTHER HUMAN
BEING IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK?
SO THERE IS SOMEWHAT
CONFLICTING -- THERE IS SOME
CONFLICT GOING THROUGH AN
OFFICER'S MIND, MEANING HOW CAN
THEY GET IN THERE AS QUICKLY AS
POSSIBLE AND REMOVE THIS WEAPON
FROM THIS INDIVIDUAL, BUT AT THE
SAME TOKEN YOU WANT THIS TO BE A
SAFE ENCOUNTER.
THE OFFAVERAGE OFFICER THAT TAKA
GUN FROM CITIZEN IN THE STREET
DOES NOT FIRE A SHOT.
THE AVERAGE INCIDENT DOES NOT
REQUIRE A PHYSICAL EXERTION SUCH
AS THROWING SOMEONE TO THE
FLOOR, THINGS TO THAT EFFECT.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT FROM BOTH
SIDES.
ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS IS IF
THE POLICE STOP YOU, IF THEY
TELL YOU TO FREEZE, DON'T MOVE,
DON'T RUN.
ESPECIALLY WHEN WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT A SITUATION WHERE THERE IS
A GUN INVOLVED.
THAT DOESN'T GIVE THE OFFICERS
THE RIGHT TO OVERLY COMMIT TO AN
ACT AN AT OF BRUTALITY.
WE HAVE THE INDIVIDUAL THAT RAN,
JUMPED THE TURNSTILE,
SUBSEQUENTLY APPREHENDED AT THE
NEXT STOP.
THIS COULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED
EARLIER BECAUSE WHEN THAT
INDIVIDUAL COMMITS TO AN ACT
LIKE THAT, THEY JEOPARDIZE
THEMSELVES AND JEOPARDIZE OTHER
NEW YORKERS IN THE PROCESS.
SO I'M A FIRM PROPONENT IN
FIREARMS CONTROL AND USE THE
MINIMUM AMOUNT OF FORCE
NECESSARY.
I THINK THAT IS WHAT THAKS
THIS -- THAT'S THE SOLE ASPECT
IN QUINTESSENTIAL POLICING.
PEOPLE SHOULDN'T GET HURT WHEN
THEY ARE ARRESTED.
IT'S A TWO-PRONGED COMPONENT.
NOT JUST THE OFFICER, BUT THE
INDIVIDUALS AT HAND.
AS A RESULT OF THAT, IF AN
OFFICER COMMITS TO AN ACT OF
BRUTALITY OR MISCONDUCT, THAT'S
WHEN MY INTERNAL AFFAIRS HAT
KICKS IN.
I AM A STRONG PROPONENT
DISCIPLINE NEEDS TO BE ENACTED
APPROPRIATELY IF WE HAVE THAT.
I AM OKAY WITH LOOKING INTO THE
INCIDENT.
WE JUST HAVE TO TAKE INTO
CONSIDERATION BOTH SIDES OF THIS
AND DID THE OFFICER ABIDE BY THE
PROTOCOLS IN CONNECTION WITH THE
PATROL GUY'S USE OF FORCE.
>> HERE IS MY INTERJECTION TO
THAT, AND THAT IS THAT, ONE, THE
YOUNG MAN TURNED OUT TO NOT HAVE
A GUN ON HIM.
THAT'S ONE.
TWO, IN THE VIDEO WE SEE HIM
WITH HIS HANDS UP, ALBEIT,
ALLEGEDLY, HE RAN FROM THE COPS
IN THE BEGINNING.
WHEN WE SEE HIM ON THE TRAIN, HE
HAS HIS HANDS UP.
THERE IS NO GUN.
AND THREE IS THAT WHILE AGAIN I
UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S SO
IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO COMPLY
WITH THE POLICE OFFICERS.
HOWEVER, WHEN A BRUTAL ARREST
FITS INTO A LARGER PATTERN OF
BRUTAL ARREST AND BRUTAL ARREST,
IS IT FAIR TO THE PERSON WHO IS
A MEMBER OF THE GROUP THAT'S
BEING SOME MIGHT SAY PERSECUTED
TO NOT HAVE THAT FIGHT OR FLIGHT
INSTINCT WHEN THEY SEE COPS?
IT'S VERY WELL KNOWN FOR MOST
AFRICAN-AMERICANS, WHEN THEY SEE
A COP, BLACK OR WHITE, THE BLOOD
PRESSURE GOES UP.
>> YOU OFTENTIMES, THIS IS A
SYMPTOM OF A MUCH LARGER
PROBLEM, AND THAT SYMPTOM OF THE
MUCH LARGER PROBLEM IS
OVERPOLICING OR HYPER AGGRESSIVE
POLICING IN PARTICULAR
COMMUNITIES, PARTICULARLY THE
SOCIOECONOMICALLY DEPRIVED
COMMUNITIES.
OFTENTIMES WE EQUATE THAT TO THE
COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.
I GOT THAT.
I UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU ARE COMING
FROM.
WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT ON A
CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.
I GET PULLED OVER NOW AND MY
BLOOD PRESSURE GOES THROUGH THE
ROOF AND I AM AN EX-NYPD
LIEUTENANT.
I AM UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN I AM
STOPPED.
THERE IS A CERTAIN REGIMENT THAT
I GO THROUGH.
THE GENTLEMAN TO MY RIGHT
TEACHES PEOPLE, TEACHES YOUNG
PEOPLE ON A REGULAR BASIS HOW TO
ABIDE BY THAT REGIMENT SO YOU
CAN EFFECTIVELY EXIT THAT
ENGAGEMENT WITH POLICE AS
QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND AS
SAFELY AS POSSIBLE.
AS A RESULT OF THAT, REMEMBER,
COPS ARE HUMAN BEINGS, TOO.
SO THEY WANT TO GO HOME.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE A
RIGHT TO BRUTALIZE SOMEONE BASED
ON WANTING TO GO HOME, BUT YOU
HAVE TO LOOK AT IT FROM BOTH
SIDES.
I UNDERSTAND.
WE GO BACK TO THE DAYS OF SLAVE
CATCHERS IN THE EARLY 1600s IN
THE UNITED STATES AND A LOT OF
THESE SLAVE PATROLS EVENTUALLY
EVOLVED INTO POLICE DEPARTMENTS.
SO WE LOOK AT THAT HORRIFIC
HISTORY OF POLICE AIN THE
AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY, IT
MAKES ALL THE SENSE IN THE
WORLD.
PEOPLE DO RUN BECAUSE THEY DON'T
WANT TO GET HURT.
BUT AS WE'RE TURNING THE CORNER
AND WE'RE LOOKING TO EFFECT
CHANGE IN THE POLICING COMMUNITY
RELATIONSHIP, THAT'S WHEN THE
TWO SIDES NEED TO COME TOGETHER
AND WE NEED TO HAVE A PLAUSIBLE
SOLUTION HOW WE DEAL WITH THESE
POLICE AND COMMUNITY
ENGAGEMENTS.
>> GRAHAM, I KNOW YOU WANT TO
GET IN ON THIS.
>> I HAVE DONE A NUMBER OF GUN
STOPS IN NEW YORK, ARRESTED A
NUMBER OF PEOPLE.
TWO MEN TURNED OUT TO BE FBI
AGENTS.
HOW DID YOU KNOW I HAVE A GUN?
IT'S WHAT I DO.
I LOOK FOR GUNS.
I FIND THEM.
I HAVE HAD ARMED SUSPECTS, GUN
IN HAND, HAMMER IS COCKED, 357
MAGNUM IN HIS HAND.
NOT ONE SHOT WAS FIRED.
THE GUYS THAT I WORK WITH WERE
NOT OUT THERE TO GET A COMBAT
MEDAL, TO GET A KILL.
WE WERE THERE TO EFFECT ARRESTS
WITHOUT HARMING THE INDIVIDUAL.
I AM NOT SAYING THERE AREN'T
DANGEROUS PEOPLE OUT THERE.
I HAVE MADE ARRESTS OF ARMED
INDIVIDUALS AND NOT A SHOT WAS
FIRED.
WALK FORWARD.
THAT SITUATION I THINK WAS ON
FRANKLIN AVENUE WHERE HE HAD HIS
HANDS UP.
YOU HAD ALL THOSE POLICE
OFFICERS.
THERE WAS AN OFFICER WITH HIS
WEAPON OUT ON THE PLATFORM.
HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT SHOULD
HAVE HIS WEAPON OUT.
HE HAS THE SUSPECT.
INSTRUCTIONS SHOULD BE GIVEN.
YOU DON'T HAVE TEN PEOPLE RUSH
INTO A SUBWAY CAR BECAUSE IF
ANYTHING DOES HAPPEN, ONE OF THE
COPS ARE GOING TO WIND UP
HURTING ANOTHER POLICE OFFICER.
AND WE HAVE HAD THAT HAPPEN TOO
MANY TIMES WHERE COPS HAVE BEEN
SHOT BY THEIR FELLOW OFFICERS
AND THEN THEY WANT TO BLAME THE
SUSPECT.
THE GENTLEMAN HAS HIS HANDS UP.
YOU ONLY NEED TWO OFFICERS,
THREE AT BEST, TO COME IN, HAVE
HIM STAND UP, CUFF HIM, SEARCH
HIM, TAKE HIM OFF THE TRAIN.
YOU DON'T NEED TEN COPS TUMBLING
INTO A TRAIN.
IT'S CHAOS.
TOTAL CHAOS.
ONCE THE OFFICERS HAVE HIM BY
HAND, THE GUY OUTSIDE ON THE
PLATFORM, HE CAN HOLSTER HIS
WEAPON.
ALL RIGHT?
BECAUSE AS YOU HAVE OTHER
OFFICERS COMING INTO THE VIEW,
YOU DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE
GETTING HIT.
>> GIVEN THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED
SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING
AT LEAST ON THE GROUND LEVEL,
LET'S GO A LITTLE BIT HIGHER UP
IN THE RANKS AND TALK ABOUT THE
LEADERSHIP AND HOW MUCH OF AN
EFFECT THE COMMISSIONER HAS ON
THE WAY POLICING IS ACTUALLY
IMPLEMENTED AMONGST EVERYDAY
PEOPLE.
DO YOU THINK IT WAS A MISTAKE ON
THE PART OF THE MAYOR TO NOT
CHOOSE A PERSON OF COLOR?
>> IN THE UPPER CADRE OF THE
DEPARTMENT, THE PERSON WHO I
THOUGHT WOULD HAVE MADE A GREAT
COMMISSIONER YEARS AGO WAS PHIL
BANKS.
AND THEN ISSUES CAME UP WITH
REGARD TO PHIL.
THE 6-0 PRECINCT, WHEN THEY HAD
THAT INCIDENT DOWN AT 6-0.
BUT BRATTON WAS PUSHING PHIL
INTO A CIVILIAN POSITION.
AND PHIL SAID I'M NOT TAKING A
CIVILIAN POSITION, ALL RIGHT?
I'M A POLICE OFFICER.
I AM GOING TO REMAIN A POLICE
OFFICER.
SO PHIL LEFT.
AND ANOTHER THING, IT'S A LITTLE
DIVERGENT, I NEVER WANTED TO BE
A COP.
I BECAME A POLICE OFFICER
BECAUSE I FELT I COULD DO THE
JOB BETTER THAN A LOT OF COPS
THAT I SAW OUT THERE DOING THE
JOB.
ALL RIGHT?
>> THAT IS AN INTERESTING NOTE.
>> AND WE NEED YOUNG FOLKS TO
TAKE THAT ATTITUDE.
AND WITH IT YOU ARE NOT LOOKING
TO TAKE THIS JOB TO BE A POLICE
OFFICER.
WITH YOUR MIND, YOU ARE GOING TO
STUDY.
WITH YOUR MIND, YOU ARE GOING TO
BECOME A SERGEANT.
WITH YOUR MIND, YOU ARE GOING TO
BECOME A LIEUTENANT.
YOU ARE GOING TO BECOME A
CAPTAIN TO TAKE ON THE
LEADERSHIP ROLES TO DETERMINE
HOW A POLICE OFFICER WILL AND
WILL NOT DO HIS JOB UNDER YOUR
CONTROL.
THAT IS WHAT WE NEED.
WE NEED OUR YOUNG FOLKS -- IT'S
NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE
COMPLAINERS.
YOU HAVE GOT TO COME IN.
YOU HAVE TO GET ON THE INSIDE TO
BRING THE CHANGE.
AND KNOW, NO, IT'S NOT GOING TO
BE OVERNIGHT.
WE DIDN'T GET THE CIVIL RIGHTS
BILL PASSED IN THE THREE YEARS
OF MARTIN LUTHER KING.
THAT WAS AN 80-YEAR PROCESS.
WE NEED YOUNG BLACK PEOPLE TO
TAKE THE EXAM AND TAKE THE CIVIL
SERVICE JOBS, WHICH MEANS AVOID
ANY CONFRONTATIONS.
AND WE WANT THEM -- YOU DON'T
PROVE YOUR MANHOOD ON THE STREET
CORNER WITH THE COP.
>> OKAY.
DARRIN, SAME THOUGHTS FROM YOU
ON HOW YOU SEE LEADERSHIP
AFFECTING ACTUAL POLICING, AND
DOES THIS NEW COMMISSIONER, DOES
HE MAKE A DINS OR NOT?
>> I AM NOT ONE THAT BUYS INTO
IDENTITY POLITICS OR IDENTITY
LEADERSHIP.
I DON'T THINK A PERSON NEEDS TO
BE OF A PARTICULAR RACE,
RACE/ETHNICITY OR MALE OR
FEMALE.
WE LOOK AT PLACES LIKE BALTIMORE
AND NEW ORLEANS WHERE POLICE
DEPARTMENTS THAT WERE DRIVEN BY
AFRICAN-AMERICANS.
BUT AT THE SAME TOKEN, THIS IS
THE THIRD IRISH MALE THAT HAS
BEEN SELECTED WITHIN THE DE
BLASIO ADMINISTRATION, AND I
WORKED IN THE NYPD AND I KNOW OF
MANY QUALIFIED
AFRICAN-AMERICANS, LATINOS, OR
EVEN FEMALES THAT COULD HAVE --
THAT WERE PROPERLY SUITED FOR A
POSITION AS THE COMMISSIONER.
IT BEGS THE QUESTION OF HIS
WILLINGNESS TO CONNECT WITH
THESE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.
I JUST THINK THAT WE HAVE A VERY
FINE TAPESTRY THAT'S
MULTICULTURAL IN THE NYPD SUCH
AS BEN TUCKER, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO
IS THE FIRST DEPUTY
COMMISSIONER.
HE IS AN OAFRICAN-AMERICAN MALE
AND HE HAS BEEN IN THAT POSITION
FOR A WHILE AND HE HAS BEEN
PASSED OVER LEFT AND RIGHT AS A
NUMBER TWO.
IT BEGS THE QUESTION, WAS THERE
A TRUE SCOUT FOR TALENT IN THE
DEPARTMENT?
I THINK THAT WE ALSO, WE DIDN'T
SIGN UP TO BE MISTREATED AS AN
AFRICAN-AMERICAN.
WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER
AFRICAN-AMERICAN THAT COMES IN
AND MISTREATS OUR POPULATION.
WE WANT A PERSON THAT'S SOUND,
THAT CAN DO THE JOB, AND I JUST
THINK THAT THIS WAS A VERY
SHORTSIGHTED MOVE ON MAYOR DE
BLASIO AND NOT EXERCISING HIS
ABILITY AS THE CHIEF ELECTED
OFFICIAL TO POSSIBLY FIND
SOMEONE ELSE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT
THERE ARE GREAT WOMEN OUT THERE
THAT CAN DO THIS JOB.
WE HAVE NEVER HAD A FEMALE
COMMISSIONER IN THE NYPD.
WE HAVE NEVER HAD A LATINO
COMMISSIONER IN THE NYPD.
GRANTED, WE HAVE HAD TWO
AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMISSIONERS
OVER THE 160 PLUS YEARS, BUT I
JUST THINK THAT THERE IS FAR
MORE IN PLACE OTHER THAN HAVING
A MALE IRISH PERSON AT THE HEAD
OF THE DEPARTMENT.
RAY KELLY WAS THE COMMISSIONER
FOR 12 YEARS.
AFTER THAT WE HAD WILLIAM
BRATTON.
THEN WE HAD JAMES O'NEILL.
NOW WE HAVE SHEA COMING IN.
I JUST THINK THAT WE HAVE MORE
TO OFFER AS A SOCIETY.
I WAS SOMEWHAT DISAPPOINTED IN
DE BLASIO'S CHOICE AS A RESULT.
>> UNFORTUNATELY, GENTLEMAN, WE
WILL HAVE TO LEAVE IT.
I WOULD ABSOLUTELY LOVE TO HAVE
YOU BACK.
THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO TALK
ABOUT.
WE HAVE TO END.
SO THANK YOU BOTH FOR THE WORK
THAT YOU DO AND FOR JOINING US
ON THE PROGRAM.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
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Funders

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