Sound and FurySound and FuryThirteen/WNET New YorkPBS


UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
  Sound and Fury: General Discussion     [all categories]
  Sound and Fury
  Sound and Fury: The Film (Page 3)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

This topic is 5 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Sound and Fury: The Film
jaxguy29
Member

Posts: 2
From: jacksonville fl
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-09-2002 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jaxguy29     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I was OUTRAGED at those parents of the deaf little girl brainwashing her into saying she decided not to hear! You those parents are total assholes! to put it as nice as I can!!!Because your jealous those implants wont work on you because your too old dont punish your daughter into living that way too..
No I dont understand your little "deaf culture" ( nor do I care too, I'm part of the rest of the world!How about letting yourlittle girl be able to grow up as "normal" as possible,and yes i dont think deaf,blind, andpled people or anything of such is "normal" and it is a defect I said it! I myself am blind in one eye and i dont consider that normal and I wouldnt want to have to learn to read braile,maybe your too scared your daughter would look down on you or not respect you as much to that I say BIG F^&^%$^%^ING deal think of your children instead of yourself!!!! Be a better PARENT!!! she'll have all those traits for you and even more if you give her a shot at A real future,I hope to God this little girl if she doesnt have this sugery grows up to resent the hell out of both of you! You are poor excuses for parents and dont deserve to even be considered a parent ( in my opinion) Put your kid up for adoption to a "loving" family that wont be to insecure in the parenting skills and give her a chance...Now that would be love!!!

audio
New Member

Posts: 1
From:
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-09-2002 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for audio     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
As an audiologist (a professional who works with hearing-impaired adults and children)who has worked with post-lingually deafened adults with CIs, I felt both saddened and challenged by this film. What the discussion has failed to mention, as I've read, is that there are audiologists and speech-language therapists who advocate Total Communication, the use of Signed Exact English to complement oral education. There are many who advocate only ASL/sign or only aural/oral communication, but there are many other professionals who are willing to use whatever method gives the child the best chance to communicate and succeed. As a hearing professional, and not yet a parent, I cannot fully empathize with the Deaf Culture; but I think I can offer parents of newly-diagnosed children all the options available and let them make their own informed-decisions.
On another note, parents make decisions for their children because children are not equipped, maturity-wise nor emotionally, to do so themselves. Parents decide which outfit the child will wear, what they will eat, and where they will go. If the child is not capable of making such a small decision, how can a parent leave the decision of such wieght, a CI, to the child? Research and studies have shown that a child has a better chance for success if she/he receives the implant and subsequent therapy at any early age. If a child is educated in his/her options thorougly, s/he will be able to make a decision later in life as to which is right for him. But if hearing parents have their child implanted, will the Deaf Culture still welcome that child with open arms, or will they shun him for his parents' decision? Will they allow the parents to bring the child to functions while growing up so that he is aware of both cultures, or will they make him feel 'handicapped' by his CI?

D
Member

Posts: 7
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-09-2002 10:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for D     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote

[This message has been edited by D (edited 01-09-2002).]

[This message has been edited by D (edited 01-09-2002).]

D
Member

Posts: 7
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-09-2002 10:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for D     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Jax
Chill out! The deaf parents are NOT jealous of their daughter because they are too old. That's completely off the point! They have their reasons. Yes. You got it that you do not understand our BIG Deaf Cultures. Actually, Deaf Cultures are simply true feelings that can't be explained to hearing people. Deaf Cultures are part of our essentional souls in our lives, they are NOT stylelife or a club. They want to pass it to their daughter. That's their decision. Not mine. As for me, I do not against cochlear implants at all. All i know is that once you get cochlear implants and Deaf culture is GONE. If i had a deaf daughter or son then i will have a difficulty time making a decision for them or allow them. They will not understand that cochlear implatns requires a lot of works that will effects emotional and mental. Needless to say, children with cochlear implants will have always been pushed to learn how to speak properly and learn how to listen properly all their childhood and losing their souls. Heck, I can't continue it to agrue because it will turn out into no WHERE to go.
In other words, people with cochlear implants will form a NEW cochlear implants community in no time because they will complain how hearing people expect high of them or wishing that they would understand what Deaf culture is meaning.
Lastly, Needless to say, Deaf community will be GONE in the future or i could have been wrong. Again, i do not against cochlear implants, i do worry about souls. That's all. I also do consider people with cochlear implatns are like robotic things..

Cferra
Member

Posts: 10
From:
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-09-2002 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cferra     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Well, I saw the film last night and I went to the site to check out what people said. I have hearing aids by the way, digital ones. I had hearing aids since 2. I am 23 now and cochlear implants wouldn't work with my degree of deafness. 70% in one ear and 80% in the other. One ear has bone deformation and the other has bone deformation and nerve damage.
Even though the guy was very adament about perserving deaf culture. Which I'm not a part of since I can't sign. I had speech therapy and I can talk well. Course my parents tell me to shut up when I talk too much =P
Anyways, the old guy who had the deaf sdaughter came across as very close minded. I think cochlear implants would be a good idea. It would have saved the girl a hell of a lot of problems. At least the baby got it. I mean, I went through a lot of stuff in school. Now I am on the verge of graduating college, with a degree in Political Science. I have achieved a lot and I think maybe, he's not seeing the benefits of being able to hear. His view that having the implants in makes her arobot is just ridiculous. It's helpful to hear:

someone breaking into the house
fire alarms
someone trying to tell you something important.
person choking
baby crying

But what I don't understand is why he didn't give his children a chance to hear. It'd save them a lot of problems later on. Besides, I think I do a lot better because I have hearing aids, digital ones to be precise. I can hear a pin drop at 30 paces. I got "bat ears" or something. But hey, life was hard with them and at least having a voice would give you a chance to strike back at them. Having a voice is better than none, expecially when they can't sign.
Don't get me wrong, the documentary was well done. But, maybe they could have showed more sides of the issue. Like say people in between. I mean there are deaf people who can speak quite well and don't sign. I never had to learn. I get along fine. Just hope they make a pair that are waterproof or something.
I never knew if deaf culture existed until last night. I think the grandmother had the right idea in urging for the implants. It's not like they were becoming Borg drones or something!

olsen
Member

Posts: 2
From:
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-10-2002 12:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for olsen     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
The point I was tryng to make, was that such statements, for example...

[quote] originally posted by Deafgrrrl:
"...deaf people can do anything except hear!"

...I believe is very wrong. Explain to me how a doctor could perform a surgery. His hands are busy, so he is unable to sign and communicate to fellow doctors and nurses.. He couldn't concentrate on his hands performing the surgery and still be able to read his colleagues sign language. Communication is vital in the oporating room and for a deaf person, that communication is flawed. Heather's husband (forgive me, I can't remember his name) said it himself. There was only so far he could climb up that corporate ladder. Sure deaf people are able to accomplish many many many things. I still feel though, that the parents are lying to themselves by saying that CI for their children would not give their kids more opportunities in life. There are more opportunities in life for the hearing. Unfortunatley, The pride of the deaf community makes that truth blind to them.

..and Angela, I admit, using the word "normal" was a mistake on my behalf. I intended to say "a life with hearing." Believe me, if I find out where you can sign up for a normal life, you'll be the second to get one; right behind me.

jaxguy29
Member

Posts: 2
From: jacksonville fl
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-10-2002 04:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jaxguy29     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Well look at it this way...I had no idea what those implants even were or that they existed till i saw the tv show,Just the fact there is something out there to help thier kids and they are too stubborn to use it is nothing short of child abuse..Those parents are the same as the religious nuts that would allow thier child to die for thier religious sake because they dont belive in doctors.Your first responsibility as a parent is to give your children all you can moving them into a place were only deaf people are is a quick fix as the parents are cowards and dont want to face the reality that guess what most humans hear! And were they have moved that poor little girl is NOT the real world! Give here the implants and give her a real shot at life! As for telling me to "chill" and then rolling your eyes to you I say go to hell! Your no better then the parents of that little girl abusing thier privlage as a parent!Ive heard of courts forcing the religious nuts of dying kids to seek medical attention wonder if something could be done about this it would really be worth checking into. Damn I hope the father dont break a leg or something he'll be asking that his kids have broken legs too just so HE dont have to feel "different" boo hoo get over it bud,hell she might even be able to help you in the real world if she were given the chance, I learn things from my kids all the time.
Even the father's own father said if he didnt know him he'd think he was a child abuser (and he is) whats up with that??
To him and the very out spoken mother Good for you! shame hes so big you could'nt pick him up and slap the crap out of him! I know if i could have reached threw the tv that day I would have!

quote:
Originally posted by D:
Jax
Chill out! The deaf parents are NOT jealous of their daughter because they are too old. That's completely off the point! They have their reasons. Yes. You got it that you do not understand our BIG Deaf Cultures. Actually, Deaf Cultures are simply true feelings that can't be explained to hearing people. Deaf Cultures are part of our essentional souls in our lives, they are NOT stylelife or a club. They want to pass it to their daughter. That's their decision. Not mine. As for me, I do not against cochlear implants at all. All i know is that once you get cochlear implants and Deaf culture is GONE. If i had a deaf daughter or son then i will have a difficulty time making a decision for them or allow them. They will not understand that cochlear implatns requires a lot of works that will effects emotional and mental. Needless to say, children with cochlear implants will have always been pushed to learn how to speak properly and learn how to listen properly all their childhood and losing their souls. Heck, I can't continue it to agrue because it will turn out into no WHERE to go.
In other words, people with cochlear implants will form a NEW cochlear implants community in no time because they will complain how hearing people expect high of them or wishing that they would understand what Deaf culture is meaning.
Lastly, Needless to say, Deaf community will be GONE in the future or i could have been wrong. Again, i do not against cochlear implants, i do worry about souls. That's all. I also do consider people with cochlear implatns are like robotic things..

grace2you
New Member

Posts: 1
From:
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-10-2002 08:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for grace2you     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Intolerance. Bias. Bigotry. You may have thought I was posting on some pre civil war or 60's era program but no, it was the atttitude of the deaf community shown on the special- Sound and Fury!

As a hearer ,I learned sign because I thought it was beautiful!Many times my heart cannot express the beauty of a song unless its signed!It brings a fullness to the music along with hearing that cannot be expressed fully with out BOTH hearing and sign.

I commend those who have done well in coping with their handicap -who in fact have found such a spot of acceptance that they no longer "believe" they are handicapped. However acccepted or main streamed ,that belief is false.

How sad to see their distaste for a person who wants to be whole like they they were meant to be.

If your child was to be given a scholarship
that would make them advantageous in every area of life -you would say no? Who's life is it any way?

The little girl says at the end "I thought you decided?" Thank God the girl is smart enough to repeat what she knows is true. The mom and says no we decided. That is not an honest statement. She may pull one over on the child but she doesnt on the audience.
Everyone knows the child is too small to carry out her own will and the mom as a parent has chosen for her.It was deceptive for her to answer in such a way.

As for the mother who called her daughter lousy -this proved to me a lack of emotional and verbal development that could have come up with something more communicative than a type of name calling.
So many of the emotions that went with sign in the parents of the girl appeared infantile and over the top as to be controlling. It appears that they are very proud and selfserving. If that is what your deafness has brought you - I say "NO THANKS".


Why would any one chose a lack of technology? Especially if it helps you to understand all people? They certainly wouldn't be allowed to choose that on the job they have -very likely given to them by a hearing boss.
And where in the world did they get that weird "robot talk"- as if hearing would take away your personality instead of giving it fullness of expression? If anything that robot motion made them look not only deaf but retarded as well. That "ooooh so spooky "talk about being a robot sounds like something out of the dark ages. Dont claim you are so progressive when it obvious you are not.

To this modern hearer ,they were like the new "deaf" Taliban.


[This message has been edited by grace2you (edited 01-10-2002).]

[This message has been edited by grace2you (edited 01-10-2002).]

[This message has been edited by grace2you (edited 01-10-2002).]

pyxisbeth
Member

Posts: 4
From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-10-2002 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pyxisbeth     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
The little girl says at the end "I thought you decided?" Thank God the girl is smart enough to repeat what she knows is true.

I think she was kinda pushed to want it and then to not by the grandmother and her parents. Did you forget that part just because it was in the beginning? Maybe you should watch it again.

grgogrl
Member

Posts: 2
From:
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-10-2002 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for grgogrl     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Wow what a debate. I personally feel that the child should have the implant It is up to parents to help their children learn their cultures be it Italian, Irish,blind, deaf whatever. That child has a great opportunity!! she can learn about both worlds from close people who love her. The mother who had her infant son implanted knows hearing and deaf cultures thanks to her family and friends. Tell me if the grandmother hated hearing so much that she cried after the surgery was done should a child born of deaf couples that can hear have that hearing removed? We have been given the opportunity to help people to hear same as laser surgery can help people to see. It is what we do with that technology do we take it for granted or share both the hearing and deaf cultures? I would love to learn about the deaf culture more but most deaf communities do not like to let the hearing in. Sesame street has taught my hearing nieces and nephews how to sign a little and they love it. perhaps our schools should offer it along with other language classes. I know many who would take it. the deaf culture will only die if the deaf community continues to separate themselves from the hearing. Like the family that decided to move.

Sherrilynn Nelson
Member

Posts: 2
From: Lakewood, CO USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-10-2002 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sherrilynn Nelson     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I've had a chance to give more thought to the documentary since my last post, and have also talked extensively with others who have or have not seen the film as to what their thoughts are. One individual's thoughts in particular struck a chord with me-- he believed that the children with cochlear implants have the ability to experience the best of both worlds, and I agree. He stresses the importance of learning BOTH sign language and speech, but to deny one of these options to a child (especially one who WANTS to live and play amongst hearing friends) is not doing what is best for the child. I doubt that many hearing parents would deny their child's wish to interact with their hearing-impaired peers. Sure, there will be challenges, especially for the one outfitted with the implant in an all deaf-household. But within that household, the parents are free to make the rule TO SIGN, just as many immigrant families continue to speak their native tongues within their American households. Outside, the girl is free to make her own decisions. The range of her choice is not limited to ONE GROUP. The girl will continue to be as involved in the deaf community, in fact to the extent that the family as a whole chooses to be. How is it possible that a deaf person who refuses to have the implant themselves looks down upon someone who has chosen (or whose parents have chosen) otherwise? How is it possible to judge from an exterior quality what lies within a person? That is akin to making assumptions about one's stand on any number of sensitive political issues based on one aspect of an individual's outside appearance. Many environmentalists drive cars. Not all women are pro-choice, et cetera. Grouping people into these categories is one of the mistakes that many in the film seem to have made. If you're going to make a fruit salad, you don't pick the fruit from only one tree. An apple salad would be pretty boring. The child who is born deaf and given the implant has the opportunity for a far richer life than many of us simply "hearing" or "deaf" people can ever imagine having, provided they acquire BOTH ASL and oral speaking skills.

Kindred Spirit
Member

Posts: 3
From: Wichita, Kansas
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-10-2002 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kindred Spirit     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
This is in response to Whistleblower:

How dare you say deaf people are defective!! Deaf people are not DEFECTIVE! Yes, they cannot hear... but does it make them defective, incomplete, abnormal? What is normal? Are you perfect?...if you are, I here to tell you you are not! No one is perfect!! Alexander Graham Bell was in favor of sterilization for deaf people (and many others) because they were different. Adolph Hitler killed thousands of deaf Jews (as well as many others with disabilities who were not Jewish). There is nothing more sickening than your attitude towards deaf people... what are you going to do if you lose your hearing someday, or sight, or voice, limb, etc... will you just stop living because you have become defective? How dare you! Do you say a prayer of thankfulness everyday because you are who you are? Heaven forbid if you do go "bad"!!

quote:
Originally posted by whistleblower:
"Kalekona" said: We felt that to give an infant a CI would be the same as telling them they were defective.

Whistleblower: But they ARE defective, aren't they? SOMEBODY is going to tell them that, so why not you? This is not a good reason to deny a deaf child a CI.


RickA
Member

Posts: 10
From: NY
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-10-2002 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RickA     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jmj:
I've worked with hearing parents who have a child who is deaf (birth to three). Some parents accepted the child without question and began learning sign and attempted to emerse themselves in deaf culture.[/B]

How truly sad it is to actually work with families with deaf children but yet adhere to a viewpoint that those families who choose to raise their deaf child differently than the manner in which you approve are labeled by you as "non-accepting" of their deaf child.

I have had the wonderful opportunity to meet many families with deaf children who have chosen many different ways to raise their deaf children. One overriding characteristic that is common to mostly all of these families is the depth and breadth of the love that they have for their children, both hearing and deaf. I know families who have willingly made sacrifices both financial and career wise so that they can provide opportunities for their deaf children. I know parents who continuously put the needs of their children ahead of their own and they do it because that is what they have determined to be in their child's best interests.

For them there never was an issue of "acceptance" of their deaf children for their love for them is unconditional. Sadly, what you equate with "non-acceptance" is the fact that they have chosen a path for their child that differs from the only one you would impose upon them.

McGrin
Member

Posts: 3
From: Colorado
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-11-2002 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for McGrin     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Wow, pretty amazing how there are so many people on this BB that can tell me (or the folks in the film) what they should do. And pretty funny how the "right" thing is completely different based on your point of view. I can tell you all, making the decision is not that easy. After months of research and lots of sleepless nights you do the thing that you hope and pray is right for your child. And then you continue to wonder. My son has a CI. He is learning about sound and speech and also sign language. Meanwhile I am studying deaf culture and history and learning all I can about how children acquire language. Maybe my son will grow up to live in the hearing world but maybe someday he throws his equipment in a drawer and decides that the deaf world is his world. Or maybe he manages to live in both. What ever happens he is my son and deserves my love and support and will get it. AND I will be happy with him no matter what he does as long as he uses his brain and his heart to decide! His deafness is hereditary so maybe in 20 years or so I will get to help he or his sister deal with the same issues I am now. Hopefully by then both the deaf and the hearing world will be more accepting and less prejudice!

I guess "Walk a mile in my shoes" says it all for me!

P.S. for those of you who are saying that a hearing person will never understand deaf culture I can only say I will keep trying to.


amyb
Member

Posts: 11
From: Warren, PA USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-11-2002 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amyb     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I am the only hearing child in an all deaf family, both immediate and extended. Luckily all my children were born hearing. The movie really struck a nerve with me. I wanted to get up and hit my television. What bothered me the most was the fact the child’s best interest for a normal life without barriers without frustrations and dependency was replaced for acceptance from the deaf community. Growing up as the only hearing child was awful. Not because I am ashamed of my parents or family's deafness, but because I was the one everyone depended on. My only wish as a child was for a hearing family. I always felt like I didn’t belong. When deaf friends were introduced to my siblings it was such a positive event because it gave them joy to see a deaf child, when they were introduced to me I was made to feel there was something wrong with me because I could hear. I was made to feel badly because I was smarter than my parents and at times was accused of being a smart a** when I was only trying to be the help they asked for.As a child I tried to poke holes in my ear drums just to fit in, just to be accepted just to lead a "normal" life. I tell my parents often if the implant were available to them as a child I would wish they had it. Life as a deaf person can be rewarding in some aspects of life but not one person deaf or hearing can say it is not frustrating. My mother can only read at a fourth grade level, her education was lacking and this has caused for great problems in her life as well as mine. I think to say a cure for deafness is not acceptable by the deaf community is absurd! I was made to feel badly because my children were born hearing, no one was happy that my children would grow up without barriers that they were perfect when they were born, everyone wished a handicap upon my children, they wished for the same limiting life they have. I was made to feel guilty by my parents and deaf friends because my life was easier than theirs. The hurt I felt was unbearable and it made me lose so much respect for my family. My deaf friends were also disappointed, what kind of culture is that?? Instead of seeing the miracle of a healthy child they could only see it wasn't unhealthy? So you see being hearing in an all deaf family is almost the same as being deaf in an all hearing family. It all has the same out come frustration and childhoods lost. the solution? A cure.
Not every deaf family has deaf children, and I wish the focus was for the future generations of deaf couples and their hearing children. The product of CODA is riddled with emotional pain frustration and tales of a childhood stolen. So when thinking of implants think not only of the individual receiving them but the future children and family of that person.

I understand the deaf culture very well and I understand the reasons for it. It is a culture that deaf people can turn to where there is no frustrations in communication ,there are no barriers and it is comforting. I also know that many deaf people form friendships not based on common interests opinions or ideas, many form friendships because the communication is not limited and for the simple fact that they are deaf. The culture does not see people as individuals that have different needs, wants or methods of communication. I have witnessed other deaf criticize another deaf person for using a different form of sign other than ASL, deaf criticizing deaf for wanting an implant to make their lives easier. It is a culture that is not based on the love for another human being; it's based on who is the better deaf person, who has the better communication skills in ASL, who has more deafness in the family. They are the first to say they are proud of Miss America because she is deaf and the first to whine when they find out she cannot use ASL. I see cries of DEAF POWER! While at the same time when a deaf person who is educated in a hearing school with better education and is successful, is in some form or another, not the perfect deaf person because they didn't go to a deaf school. Why on earth would I want to put any child in that world? I would want my children to grow up in a loving environment, in a world where who she is inside really matters. I hope that someday the cure for deafness prevails and the right to lead a normal life without the barriers isn't put under a microscope. For all considering the implant I say go for it, open the doors to success and be who ever you want to be, dream every dream and know there is nothing stopping you from obtaining that dream!


[This message has been edited by amyb (edited 01-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by amyb (edited 01-11-2002).]

pyxisbeth
Member

Posts: 4
From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-11-2002 07:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pyxisbeth     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
amyb, do you feel like you agree with the ci's because you are a coda and your experiences being raised? I know that for some, it's not like that.

amyb
Member

Posts: 11
From: Warren, PA USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-11-2002 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amyb     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pyxisbeth:
amyb, do you feel like you agree with the ci's because you are a coda and your experiences being raised? I know that for some, it's not like that.

I agree with them because they are a step forward , just like my lasik surgery was for me. I was born with bad eyes, I was the first in line for the new surgery, I no longer had to depend on other people to tell me what was going on in the world around me. The surgery I had doesn't help everyone the same but however if it can help "one" lead a life without barriers and dependency on others I am all for it. I just want others to see a different side, I am a CODA and I am sure there are others out there that feel differently, but when it comes to them (CODAS) having a deaf child I ask them how on earth would they want to put their grandchildren through the same childhood they went through.

marymich
New Member

Posts: 1
From: Ringwood, NJ USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-12-2002 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for marymich     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I would like to see a follow up done on this program. How are Peter and Heather doing now? What about the other children shown? I have a nephew with a c i, for his family it has been a miracle.

RSG
New Member

Posts: 1
From: Easton, P.A.
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-12-2002 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RSG     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All of the responses to the film either come from some who can hear or someone who is deaf. Does anyone know what it is like to have 100% hearing then become deaf?

[This message has been edited by RSG (edited 01-12-2002).]

[This message has been edited by RSG (edited 01-12-2002).]

ren26
New Member

Posts: 1
From:
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-13-2002 07:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ren26     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I have been aware of this debate for a long time, but I still find myself shocked by the arguments against using whatever technology is available to help eliminate the handicap of deafness.

First of all, deafness is a handicap, not a culture. Culture is defined as: “the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behaviour… language, ideas, beliefs, customs, taboos, codes, institutions, tools, techniques, works of art, rituals, ceremonies, and other related components…” Deaf people have only one social difference from hearing people--sign language instead of spoken and heard language. This single difference does not make deaf people a "cultural group"--if you are from South America and deaf, you do not share the same culture as a deaf person in America unless that deaf American is originally from that other country in South America, or belongs to a family from that country. There are no special rituals, religious beliefs, etc..common to all deaf people. No "culture" is specifically identified by law, but there are special laws for people with disabilities.

The deaf people in this documentary seemed selfish, controlling, and insecure--worried more that implanted family members would grow away from them than about the quality of life that coclear implants can offer. One definition of love is: willing the good to another. I did not see much love by the deaf community toward the children whose futures they controlled. Good is hearing those zoo animals, those birds, that music that the one little girl will never enjoy. By the time she is able to make choices for herself, many of the windows of opportunity within the language centers of her brain will be forever closed off.

I could not believe that the deaf grandparents signed that they wanted to cry at losing a member of their "culture". I wanted to cry at the closed minds that I saw grieving for their own loss of self-identity instead of celebrating the wonderful opportunities the child would have in life and the new self-identity--that the child would have after the implant.

I could not help but think that as more and more children receive cochlear implants, those few who were denied that gift of hearing by fearful and controlling parents will grow old in a world with fewer and fewer deaf people to interact with, but that the time frame for the best results will be forever gone. However, those parents and grandparents will not be around to see that sadness--their children and grandchildren having "kept them company" while they were alive.

Life is about having as many options in front of us with as few limitations as possible, and not being able to hear or speak well is a big limitation. Cochlear implants offer independence from interpretors, frustration, ridicule, confusion, insecurity, isolation, and scores of other complications that being deaf in a hearing world bring. One universal trait of all cultures is the desire for the next generation to live fuller, better, more satisfying lives than the one before it. That is the value that deaf people should remember and allow for their children--then perhaps they can claim to be a "culture".

pyxisbeth
Member

Posts: 4
From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-13-2002 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pyxisbeth     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
ren26, well thank you for looking up the definition of culture in the dictionary. Your post makes you come off as completely naive and I think you should look a little bit more into deaf culture. I found some really good website that explains it: http://www.aslinfo.com/ and you can click on the link 'deaf culture'. Because it's a culture it would probably help if you could relate it to something like black culture or any ethnic american culture.

amyb
Member

Posts: 11
From: Warren, PA USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-13-2002 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amyb     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ren26:
I have been aware of this debate for a long time, but I still find myself shocked by the arguments against using whatever technology is available to help eliminate the handicap of deafness.

First of all, deafness is a handicap, not a culture. Culture is defined as: “the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behaviour… language, ideas, beliefs, customs, taboos, codes, institutions, tools, techniques, works of art, rituals, ceremonies, and other related components…” Deaf people have only one social difference from hearing people--sign language instead of spoken and heard language. This single difference does not make deaf people a "cultural group"--if you are from South America and deaf, you do not share the same culture as a deaf person in America unless that deaf American is originally from that other country in South America, or belongs to a family from that country. There are no special rituals, religious beliefs, etc..common to all deaf people. No "culture" is specifically identified by law, but there are special laws for people with disabilities.

The deaf people in this documentary seemed selfish, controlling, and insecure--worried more that implanted family members would grow away from them than about the quality of life that coclear implants can offer. One definition of love is: willing the good to another. I did not see much love by the deaf community toward the children whose futures they controlled. Good is hearing those zoo animals, those birds, that music that the one little girl will never enjoy. By the time she is able to make choices for herself, many of the windows of opportunity within the language centers of her brain will be forever closed off.

I could not believe that the deaf grandparents signed that they wanted to cry at losing a member of their "culture". I wanted to cry at the closed minds that I saw grieving for their own loss of self-identity instead of celebrating the wonderful opportunities the child would have in life and the new self-identity--that the child would have after the implant.

I could not help but think that as more and more children receive cochlear implants, those few who were denied that gift of hearing by fearful and controlling parents will grow old in a world with fewer and fewer deaf people to interact with, but that the time frame for the best results will be forever gone. However, those parents and grandparents will not be around to see that sadness--their children and grandchildren having "kept them company" while they were alive.

Life is about having as many options in front of us with as few limitations as possible, and not being able to hear or speak well is a big limitation. Cochlear implants offer independence from interpretors, frustration, ridicule, confusion, insecurity, isolation, and scores of other complications that being deaf in a hearing world bring. One universal trait of all cultures is the desire for the next generation to live fuller, better, more satisfying lives than the one before it. That is the value that deaf people should remember and allow for their children--then perhaps they can claim to be a "culture".



I'll second that! very well said.

MaxEdison
New Member

Posts: 1
From: Hamlin,PA,USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-13-2002 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MaxEdison     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
The film raised my blood pressure about 20 points, which I think is at least one of its intended effects, so in that respect it was very well done. It certainly lives up to its title!

I can't help but feel sorry that this subject matter - which would seem on the surface to be non-controversial - is in fact so terribly wrenching to these families. I also feel bad because it appears to burst some of the illusions I had about deaf people - at least the ones shown here. It seems that most of these folks regard we folks who can hear as self-serving and selfish. But - all I saw when watching this film is the terrible pressure exerted on a small child and her concerned relatives when her parents make what I consider to be a terrible choice. Deafness IS a disability - and though the little girls parents have learned ways to get around it all their lives, it is unfair to force her through subtle (or not-so-subtle) cooercion to remain deaf - and all because I think that they would feel their disability more keenly by having a hearing daughter around to remind them constantly. My hat is off to the parents - especially the young mother - who decided to give her child the chance to live normally (again - deafness isn't normal - otherwise, what are the ears for?) as a hearing person. This despite all the terrible, terrible emotional battling she had to face. Her mother should be ashamed of the things she said to this poor, courageous woman.

Kendra
Member

Posts: 2
From: toms river,nj usa
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-14-2002 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kendra     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I was sitting and flipping through channels today when I happen to come accross this film and it caught my eye. Before I knew it I found myself angry, but yet still enthralled. Before I go on , I should tell my story.I am a 25 yr old woman who through my years of life never made it to the hearing world, yet never made it to the so-called deaf culture either.It started when I was just six years old, I had chronic ear infections, that were helped with a simple doctors visit and some medicine. After awhile my parents started to notice me not responding to their voices, but didn't think much of it and brought me to the doctor. They found out that I had a perforation in my left ear drum as well as hearing loss that was caused by all of the infections. My right ear just suffered some mild hearing loss. Through the ages of 7 to 10 I went through about 7 operations to put those tubes in that are supposed to help you hear better. Well, needless to say, they never worked for one reason or another.They had decided that the perforation was getting too big and the reality of becoming deaf was becoming closer.Then I went through two more major reconstructive operations on my left ear alone. Now you know a little of my background, so here comes my comments and opinions about this film. I was thrown back when the grandparents suggested that they wait until the child is old enough to make a decision for themself. Well, how old is old enough to be able to make a decision like that. From the first day that a child is born, they begin to hear sounds and noises that help them to develop their motor skills. When a child is deprived of those sounds, they have no base to go on.During the time of my ear troubles, I self learned how to read lips and in a sense rejected what my ears were hearing and went solely on what I was seeing. I had trouble in school because I couldn't hear well, so therefore I drifted off into this world created by me. I became a child that learned by sight and touch, not hearing. I was forced into speech classes and slow learning classes, which I have to add was quite embarrassing, because I wasn't stupid I just couldn't hear like everyone else could. So to let a child be deaf for the part of it's life that is most impressionable and then give them that choice.I didn't have that choice, but I can tell you that this path that essentially reverses everything they now know as a way of life is a far greater battle for the child, not the parents.Now I am 25 and I just had another surgey in October.I went for a checkup and found that my hearing had such a severe loss,that if I didn't do anything right away, I would be deaf in my left ear.It turned out that one of the bones was missing and they put in a prosthetic.The difference this surgery was that I had a choice, and I chose hearing.If I had said to myself that this is what god gave me and I should leave it be, I would be missing out on what I have grown to love and in a way it would have been like giving up after all I went through as a child.Being a parent is giving your child EVERYTHING that you did not have, including medical opportunities. Most people take the five senses for granted unless it is threatened in some way. It is said that when one sense is gone , that all the others become better. Well, in my experience, I am able to read people better just by mannerisms, because I learned to hear with my eyes, not my ears. Now that I have most of my hearing restored, I am hearing things that I had missed for so long. And I thank god for that because he put that angel on earth to invent the one thing that has given me the chance to hear again.And I cannot lie, sometimes I wish I could give it back, because it's scary; I, in a way , got used to not hearing, and I was o.k. with it.I am not here to offend anyone, but I in a sense went through it. It would just be extremely foolish to deny a child of that chance. Then that one day will come when a family chooses no, and then some day in the future the child comes up to them with that innocence, and asks why you denied them of the only chance that they had of hearing, because somehow they found out; they always do. Then what do you say?

I am so proud of anyone that overcomes any obstacles, no matter how big. It takes courage, strength, faith, and a long road to get where they are.Then to make a decision to have your child or grandchild go through the same obstacles you did because you know that you will be there to help them go through it, and to prove it somehow that it is not a handicapp.So here comes the question; Are you trying to prove it to yourself or the rest of society? I think in this program that the mother who decided to have the operation done against all people in her way, is a brave woman and did the best thing for her child.She decided to give her child every opportunity he could have with all five wonderful senses.So never deny your child anything (within reason ,of course)
Just remember that kids are what the parents make them, with or without all five senses.

Thank you,
Kendra

[This message has been edited by Kendra (edited 01-14-2002).]

nette b
Member

Posts: 3
From: Gothenburg, NE
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-16-2002 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nette b     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
As a post-lingually deafened adult I am amazed at the audacity of the deaf and hearing community. To believe that one way of life is superior to another is simply wrong. It's the same as believing one race is better than another. Our pride as a parent stems from doing everything we can for our child and what that childs achieves in his/her life. The decision of one parent may not necessarily be the decision another would chose, but that makes it neither right or wrong. It isn't our place to judge, but rather support. A deaf child will eventually decide what is in his/her own best interest, be it a CI or turning off their CI. Allowing them the opportunity to experience the best that life has to allow is what makes a parent exceptional.

This topic is 5 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5 

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Technical Problems? | Thirteen/WNET

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.42a
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 1999.