posted 12-05-2000 01:13 AM         

Deafbase Discussion Boards

As a administrator, I cannot become personally/emotionally involved in these discussions.

I might say I've gone through most of pathological views and methods of "changing" me into "functional hearing person"

Oralism, Cued Speech, cochlear implant, hearing aids, you name it.

Yet, I finally got exposed to Deaf culture where I found 'me' and dumped hearing aids, cochlear implant and other methods imposed on me the last 11 years.

I've been around and have seen too much. That's all I'll say about myself.

posted 01-30-2001 08:10 AM         

If on the other hand there was a devise that simply allowed normal hearing then while we should respect the right of free choice it is most likely a good idea to use or at least try such a device.

The point is obvious. Anything that increases anyone's ability tends to be good. If there was something that would allow one to fly like superman it is probably a good thing.

Culture is based on values and communication. A white person can be part of black culture and a hearing person can be part of deaf culture. If increase knowledge and ability causes one to freely leave a culture that is a good thing. Let's say that there was a way for people to be 100xs smarter then they were and the increase in intellegence lead then to change their values then clearly that would be a good thing. If people could become totally telepathic and that lead them to forgot about speaking orally that would be a good thing. Ability tends to be good and those who are against increasing one's ability are on the side of evil.

posted 12-14-2001 06:49 PM         

That isn't a very important issue, however. My larger problem with this post is that the point is not at all "obvious." I can't imagine a more problematic statement than "Anything that increases anyone's ability tends to be good." We outlaw steroids for exactly this reason- more is not always better. The example of telepathy makes me cringe- do you really imagine that a world where everyone was omnipotent and omniscient would be a better world than the one we are in?

It is true that "culture" includes shared values and methods of communication, but it does not follow that culture has nothing to do with any other factor. Learning a language does not guarantee acceptance by a language community, shared values or no, and many communities and cultures include members with widely varying languages and values. Additionally, cultural identity and ability have little to do with each other. This is the root of the issue as far as I can tell- a Deaf adult who suddenly gains the ability to hear does not automatically join the hearing world any more than a textbook knowledge of a foreign language prepares one for living in another country. The issue of implanting children is not one of ability but one of cultural belonging. Superman had a lot of abilities, but he was a pretty lonely guy.

posted 01-09-2002 01:03 AM         

quote:

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Originally posted by greenwitch:
It is true that "culture" includes shared values and methods of communication, but it does not follow that culture has nothing to do with any other factor.
Learning a language does not guarantee acceptance by a language community, shared values or no, and many communities and cultures include members with widely varying languages and values. Additionally, cultural identity and ability have little to do with each other. This is the root of the issue as far as I can tell- a Deaf adult who suddenly gains the ability to hear does not automatically join the hearing world any more than a textbook knowledge of a foreign language prepares one for living in another country.

Finally, I am utterly baffled by the closing statement "may be up until now it would be better to have AIDS then to use a hearing aid but none the less ability is a good thing." I need something a little more coherent and with a little more basis in fact before I will be convince that I am "on the side of evil."
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posted 01-09-2002 11:40 AM         

I understand that as a deaf parent, with deaf children it would be hard to decide to have your deaf child to undergo a procedure that would allow himto hear - would they give up ASL for spoken language?

It is a spoken world - there are some places that are just now getting putting their language to print. Sign is a long way off for these languages.

A woman in my church, married to a hearing man, now fluent in ASL, with two hearing daughters whom are also fluent in ASL presntly sings in the choir in sign - it's beautiful, and needless to say - she's always in tune. She has always had some speach - hard to understand, but speach. Recently she got an cohcular implant, and because of her age her learning curve is slower. But her speach is becoming clearer day by day - she has a beautiful voice too.

The unasked question to the deaf parents of deaf children was this:

If your child were not born deaf, but born blind, and an operation were available to give him an occular implant allowing vision that would mean he would see well enough to read books, and if the procedure were done early enough, his sight would develop to an extent that he would be able to drive, would you have the procedure done? Or would you say that this procedure meant he would no longer be part of the blind community? Too much of a threat to the blind that chose not to have the procedure?

Sign is beautiful, but so is sound.

posted 01-09-2002 09:49 PM         

Hi My name is Debra Gilley,

I have heard all my life until Oct of 99 when I came down with Spinal
Meningites. I was 34 yrs old at the time.I was in a coma for 8 days and
the dr's didnt think I would make it. Finally on the 9th day I came out
of the coma and lost my hearing due to the illness. It took me about 8
months to get my balance back and to really get back to feeling normal
again. It was a major shock to my body for what I went through. I was
so lost and depressed that I would not be able to hear again. I was a
Pharmacy Tech for a drug company for 18 yrs and to not be able to go back
to work doing what I loved the most was heartbreaking. Then in May of
2000, I was able to get the Cochlear Implant and I have had it since
then. I can't tell you how HAPPY I am with it. It was the best thing that
I could have ever received.

I am now working as a retail clerk for a Texas store and have had no
problems what so ever. I am supposed to use certain devices for the phone
but I have not used them because I can hear so clear. The Dr. was so
amazed that I could hear without using what need to be used for the
phone. I started back to college in Aug of 2000 taking computer courses like
Excel and Power Point and am starting again this coming Feb for
QuickBooks Pro and Web Designing. I cant describe the feeling I get when I can
hear the rain and thunder or the sound of music now. Or the sound of my
dog barking. Also to hear my son's voice.

I was watching the show "Sound & Fury" and was so upset that the little
girl was not able to get the Implant. I wish I could help in some way
to make the parents understand that you Can live both worlds. Signing
and hearing can help her in so many ways. Just because you have one
culture does not mean you have to shut out the other.

I hope you will send this to the parents of both party's just to let
them know that it can work both ways. Just because I am deaf now and have
the implant I can hear and sign. Its a gift that I will not take for
granted.

I love music and I am a Big fan of NASCAR and love to fish and hunt. I
have been to a few NASCAR races and cant tell you how I love to hear
them say " gentleman start your engines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am enclosing a pic and this is right after I got my implant. I hope
to hear from you and get your feedback. I would really like to email the
parents both parties or you can relay this message to them for me and
give them my email address. This means so much to me.

Thank you for your time and cant wait to hear from you

Debra Gilley email addy is: iluvnascar88@yahoo.com

my address is as follows also:

Debra Gilley PO BOX 81139 Corpus Christi, Texas 78468

posted 06-12-2003 07:02 PM         

The results can be tragic. I have seen it happen over and over again. The hearing parents are told not to expose their child to sign language because s/he will not learn to speak. So even when their child's spoken English development is severely delayed and time is running out...they still don't want to expose the child to sign language. I've seen so many children finally be "allowed" to sign, but it's late in their childhood and they often don't ever develop strong language skills, spoken or signed. It's horrible for their academic skills like reading and it is devastating to their self-esteem. They spend the most important developmental years of their lives being frustrated and feeling like they have failed their well-meaning but misinformed parents.

So the most important issue for me is not cochlear implants versus Deaf Culture (although I love and cherish Deaf Culture) but that so many deaf children are not even given the chance to develop language and cognitive skills in a normal way...because of a myth! It's simply not true that sign language will prevent them from learning to speak.

Also, just because a deaf child has "pretty" speech, does not mean s/he has a solid base in language and/or reading. I've seen this over and over again, too. Parents and educators show off the child's speech, but when you dig deeper, you find out that their language is delayed and weak.

posted 08-10-2003 10:10 AM         

quote:

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Originally posted by Bitty:
What concerns me the most is that so many hearing parents are not even told about sign language. They are not even offered the option. And even worse, they are given false information. They are told that learning sign language will stop their deaf child from learning to speak."

That is simply not true. Most hearing parents usually have no personal experience with deafness and thus are unaware that deaf people can communicate orally. Most hearing people think that ALL deaf people communicate manually and are usually completely unaware of the existence of the oral deaf community.

"So the most important issue for me is not cochlear implants versus Deaf Culture (although I love and cherish Deaf Culture) but that so many deaf children are not even given the chance to develop language and cognitive skills in a normal way...because of a myth! It's simply not true that sign language will prevent them from learning to speak."

I do not disagree with you but I also think you are not being totally upfront. You are aware of the issues concerning the literacy levels of children who sign. Check out Galluadet's website and see their concerns. The average deaf high school graduate reads at a 4th grade level!

"And I'm frustrated that so many parents are not told what the difference between speech and language is, and that sign language *opens* doors, it does not close them. It opens doors to language, high self-esteem, social development, academic success, etc.

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How? And exactly how does being able to communicate orally along with the over 99% of the population that does so, not do the same for any person?
Rick

posted 08-10-2003 10:14 AM         

quote:

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Originally posted by jejones3141:
One thing that I've never run across in what I've read and seen about cochlear implants is this: how well does it really work? Can someone with a CI successfully play "Name That Tune"? Tune a guitar? Play a musical instrument? Learn to speak Chinese or another tone-based language? In other words, how close is the experience of sound by someone with a CI to that of a hearing person standing next to him or her?

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posted 10-28-2003 06:07 PM         

So, according to your logic, parents of deaf babies should not get cochlear implants, but wait 30 years or so until hair cell regeneration becomes a reality for humans? What good will that do? Their young brains are wired to learn spoken language NOW, not when they're adults.

As to your comment about what will recipients of cochlear implants do when hair cell regeneration technology works on humans, my child will do nothing probably. She already hears in the "normal" range with her implant and, at age 5, her spoken language tests show her to be equal to 7-year-old hearing children and she has no speech delays.

posted 11-28-2003 11:38 PM         

Second, The implants should not be performed on children. Because I cannot image seeing my baby gettin drilled in the head. I believe that parents should not make a life changing decision by putting cochlear implants.

Third, Technology is advancing everyday, and the cost of having CI is about 25,000 dollars, so in 10 years you have to get a new charge, and it would cost about 15,000 dollars just to get a charger. This is full of crap? Believe me!

posted 04-22-2005 07:59 PM         

You wouldn't know the sound of a symphony, or the sound of your mothers voice. You wouldn't know the beauty of hearing a laugh or the sound of rain on a roof.

What of your child had been born deaf, not you.
You know those sounds. The ability to sing and hear it echo.

Wouldn't you want the same for your child?

There is such a fear in the older generation of the deaf culture that cochlear implants will create "robots", or deprive a child of the "blessing" of being deaf.
But think, what if it was you? Why deprive your child from expanding their ability. Why can't they sign and speak. Many parents have the choice to allow their child to have a cochlear implant. It is also the parents choice and duty to teach their child about deaf culture.

posted 11-26-2005 09:40 PM         

quote:

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Originally posted by lindseykei:
You wouldn't know the sound of a symphony, or the sound of your mothers voice. You wouldn't know the beauty of hearing a laugh or the sound of rain on a roof.

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Is that all there is to experience, inside this whole entire world? Or are you saying that you think the sound would make up a significant part of any experience?

I don't think I would really want my life to be as narrow as yours seem to be. I didn't think that something like a laughter would be reduced to something mundane like a noise.. it is a whole euphoria to me. It is not bounded up inside what you hear. My mother, who is not deaf, is not someone cooped up inside the sound of her voice. She transcends that.

quote:

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Would you let your child use their sign language as a crutch?

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A crutch? I don't know what you think it is.. the American Sign Language is definitely not some simplistic series of codes for anyone's language to piggy-back on. They are literally voices to me and others Deaf, in the same way these cords you vibrate is your voice.

All these beautiful things you say we're missing out on are really just some noise arranged in certain ways if you think about it, in the same way some of the beauty in this sign language remains meaningless to some people not deaf, no matter how hard they try to look.. the complexity and nuances of it. Just because you only see the hands, doesn't mean you should go around and act as if your vibrating adam's apple is something more wondrous.

quote:

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the "blessing" of being deaf.

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What? It is not just the deafness by itself. (not that this would be any worse compared to your apparent inability to see anything beyond your ears). It is a blessing because there is already a culture.. with several sign languages and all. It is beautiful and anyone can learn from it, and add their lifetime of experiences back to it. You end up with a viewpoint that is different from anything else. I don't really understand how something this simple could seem that strange to you. It isn't fair to the deaf people when you take what we say and put them out of context.. making us out as fools who don't know any better. Please keep your "quotes" and your condescension to yourself.

Anyway, the cochlear implant is really nothing more than a hearing aid that is wasteful of all kinds of resources, especially a child's. It might be great for some people like those with the adult deafness, but don't try to make it more than what it actually is.. it's not even that good enough to enjoy your symphony with.

posted 02-03-2007 09:23 PM         

quote:

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Originally posted by beeblebrox:
Please keep your "quotes" and your condescension to yourself.

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You are so careful and meticulous to point out the simplicity of lindseykei's arguements, but you fail to see your bitter condescension that hurts someone (hearing)who shares sommon viewpoints about CI and sign language as you do. Of course you have the right to be bitter about anything you want with those egotists trying to tell you about yourself... and unfortunatley this is a common tone I am experiencing in my CI research - in very reputable sources that I am trying to use in my argument. Realize it does nothing to invite people to your cause. By the way, I do not claim to grasp the complexity of any issue, especially this one.