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little ish Member Posts: 2 From: Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-13-2000 04:09 AM NevaElks - The things you describe that you have been going through (Not wanting to be around others, sleeping alot, not leaving the house) are all things I experienced after the death of my brother. I am not even sure how many months passed before I finally left the house, but I do know that even then I hated having people anywhere near me. I have experienced death of family members through out my life, but only the death of one in my arms after a prolonged battle with cancer. My brother died almost 4 years ago at the time of his death he was my older brother (2years). I guess technically I am now the older sibling - that is such an odd thought, but one that has occurred to me since the day 2 years ago when I was suddenly the elder child. My brother and I were not so close growing up, but learned to love, respect, and depend on each other as we became adults. I was his only caregiver through the last months of his life and he died suddenly in my arms early one Sunday morning. The memories of his emaciated, fragile, and pain racked body are at time more than I think I can handle. His last breaths were pleas to help him - Help him to Live? or to die? I will never know. I will also never forget that gasping raspy voice and the anguish he was experiencing. I know that I have not come to terms with his death or the manner in which it occurred and I don't honestly ever expect to. I get up every morning, dress & go to work, eat when I have to, sleep when I can, and greive in solitude. That may not be the formula for coping with the death of a loved one that most would prescribe, but it has allowed me to get through 4 years without hearing the word "sis" even once. Not much of a word only 3 letters, but I miss it so very much!!
ccaptainkarin Member Posts: 3 From: oceanside,n.y. Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-13-2000 09:57 AM quote: Originally posted by cdrury: AFter watching the prroam last night, and again tonight, then reading letters on this topic.....I am still in tears. My father died Oct 14, 1999. Almost one year has passed and I cannot "get on with life" as I am continually told to do. He was ill for 5 years with a rare respiratory disease. He was ready to go and very much at peace, I hope. My mother has terminal cancer of the liver and has told me repeatedly that dad was ready to go and was at peace. I believe her and love her more than anything. To the point that I cannot go one day without going to see her or talking to her on the phone. She recently had her 3rd cancer surgery, (I hope the last). and I have been the caregiver from the start. I am her oldest child and her health surrogate. After watching just this show, I am fearful of my sanity when the time does come to enforce her last wishes. I still cry every day about my dad. My husband lost his father many years ago, and tries to comfort me, but I am almost at the point of no return. I am so gald that someone has decided to broach the subject of death and grief for the living. It is long overdue. I cannot talk to anyone. I ahve babbled enough. I will let someone else talk for awhile. Thank you for your time. It may be hard to believe but there are others who are faceing or have faced the same or simaluar problems you face now. My dad died 6 yrs ago from a cancer with no name. Or as the doctors said they could not find the primary cancer so there was no real treatment. He was told he had cancer by me and he was told that he was termminal by me . After an emergency surgey to his spine to relieve pressure on his legs we were told that his cancer was a very aggressive type and he would be paralized. My dad came home with me to die. My husband was afarid this was not the right time and place for our children to learn of death. But as the weeks wnet by we all learned home is the best place to be when your loved one is dieing. My dad dies one month after comeing home. I was holding his hand and he died peacefuly.My husband said that day that if anything ever happend to him he wanted the same thing my dad had. His family with him and me by his side. One year later my husband was told he had colon cancer and that it haad spread to his liver. He had two major operations in a period of three weeks to remove his cancer. radition treatments, chemo,we had one year of true hope and than the new it was back now in his lungs, another surgey more chemo and after all that it came again. through all this our family grew closer and our young teeenageers turned into young adults. they learned to put other first and to be patient.I'm proud to say my husband and I have three great kids. His condition didn't get better and the cancer continued to grow. Last March 1999 we were told our only hope was experimental drugs. We tried a few only one helped to slow down the cancer. That drug eventually made him sicker than the cancer and everything was stopped. This past March 2000 almost a year to when we were told there was nothing more to help. His cancer was very aggressive. We talked about all the things you are facing with your mother and weather I could take control when he was not able to make his own deceison. He had a faith in me that I just knew I'd do the right thing for him and follow his wishes. I relived my dads death often before I had to face my husbands.I'm glad he was home with us and like my father my husband died holding my hand and he had a peace I wish I could explain to you. I'm no supper woman and I cry often I miss my husband very much he was and is my very best friend. We cried together over the four years we fought his cancer,but somehow there was always that ray of hope even when the facts are against it. Death is final, greif is not . One of the last thing my husband did was to make a video tape for our oldeest son.He was afraid he would die before our son could get home from eroupe. In that tape he says don't make your mother crazy she has enough on her plate and she is going to have alot of her own problems. I love her very much. Now how can a person not respect this mans wishes. So I give you all my support and respect I truly feel you can do what is nessary when the time comes.
Maura Member Posts: 2 From: Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-13-2000 11:01 PM quote: Originally posted by Jvabean: The show this evening was stirring. I identified with the wife of the dying doctor who felt like she was in a car going down a hill with no breaks and no way to stop it. My mother has a genetic neurological brain disease for which there is no cure. She is dying piece by piece and it is robbing her of precious, necessary parts of herself. Her memory, her thought processing, decision making, ability to be independent (which she is no longer). Uncontrollable body movements. It's feels like we are also in that car with no brakes. Worse yet it doesn't threaten only her life but those of us her four kids. It is genetic and each of us have a 50/50% chance of also inheriting it anytime now. Well, I did for 4.5 years anyway until I could not take another day of waiting and wondering if I would be next and die too. Three months of intensitve testing later I tested negative and do not carry the gene. Relief, shock, numbness. Post traumatic stress for living with that hanging over my head for so long and survivor guilt for making when others like mom don't. When my three siblings still each have the 50/50% risk and are too afraid to test. (I understand). Seeing and watching their own pain and struggle understanding it all too well. Loving them right where they are. Watching mom dying trying to accept each change and loss. I mourn them all - all over again with each new one. Grief isn't tidy is it? It isn't a neat package. It has it's own agenda and it will never be just the exact same as anothers. We are unique and have as I like to say our own set of lenses with which we look through. Then the goal isn't to try our glasses on another but to help them see through their own in a way that is meaningful to them. I am learning a lot about grief through my own. It fine tunes life, weeds out a lot of fluff and tells you what matters. It also teaches me that though I do not have my mother's disease that it does not mean I will not have something else or die. It means that I have looked at death up closer than others and it has challenged me personally and as I watch mom die and others who I love with this disease I will pray the guilt will not hang like a cloud over me as it has and that I can make it through. This show already in one episode is helping to pull the reality of mom right now out of the drawer I have stuffed it in and to look at it honestly. There was some peace in that. Ironically I had training as a hospice volunteer and have sat by others bedsides as they were near death. But this one hits just right in the deepest parts. There's did too, still, they weren't mom. Had to just kind of talk it out. Thanks. Julie
Maura Member Posts: 2 From: Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-13-2000 11:22 PM Your message struck many chords with me - lost my mother last year to a prolonged illness that also took a piece of her each day - lost my father one year prior to an illness the doctors told us was nothing - lost my brother to undiagnosed heart disease 1 week before my mother - I feel for you in the genetics, the last thing you need in that momemt is that kind of fear - happ[ened with us with my brother My mother had long and short term memory losses - real hard to lose my mother - far harder to lose her before her death and find we had to deal with an entirely different woman at the end - there was enough of her left to see glimpses - but they almost hurt worst. What I had meant to talk about was the last days of her life and the process we (my sister and 4 remaining brothers went through) to have our mother at home. This program was so poignant and so righteous after our struggles that I can't see straight for wanting to call my congress rep. I was fortunate to be born into a large family that caring for our parents was possible for us. Caring for that generation should be our highest priority - we spend on medicare and ssi and what have you but we leave them bereft at the very end - how can we do that to the generation that may very well have given us every generation to come? gave quote: Originally posted by Jvabean: The show this evening was stirring. I identified with the wife of the dying doctor who felt like she was in a car going down a hill with no breaks and no way to stop it. My mother has a genetic neurological brain disease for which there is no cure. She is dying piece by piece and it is robbing her of precious, necessary parts of herself. Her memory, her thought processing, decision making, ability to be independent (which she is no longer). Uncontrollable body movements. It's feels like we are also in that car with no brakes. Worse yet it doesn't threaten only her life but those of us her four kids. It is genetic and each of us have a 50/50% chance of also inheriting it anytime now. Well, I did for 4.5 years anyway until I could not take another day of waiting and wondering if I would be next and die too. Three months of intensitve testing later I tested negative and do not carry the gene. Relief, shock, numbness. Post traumatic stress for living with that hanging over my head for so long and survivor guilt for making when others like mom don't. When my three siblings still each have the 50/50% risk and are too afraid to test. (I understand). Seeing and watching their own pain and struggle understanding it all too well. Loving them right where they are. Watching mom dying trying to accept each change and loss. I mourn them all - all over again with each new one. Grief isn't tidy is it? It isn't a neat package. It has it's own agenda and it will never be just the exact same as anothers. We are unique and have as I like to say our own set of lenses with which we look through. Then the goal isn't to try our glasses on another but to help them see through their own in a way that is meaningful to them. I am learning a lot about grief through my own. It fine tunes life, weeds out a lot of fluff and tells you what matters. It also teaches me that though I do not have my mother's disease that it does not mean I will not have something else or die. It means that I have looked at death up closer than others and it has challenged me personally and as I watch mom die and others who I love with this disease I will pray the guilt will not hang like a cloud over me as it has and that I can make it through. This show already in one episode is helping to pull the reality of mom right now out of the drawer I have stuffed it in and to look at it honestly. There was some peace in that. Ironically I had training as a hospice volunteer and have sat by others bedsides as they were near death. But this one hits just right in the deepest parts. There's did too, still, they weren't mom. Had to just kind of talk it out. Thanks. Julie
kleinrdr New Member Posts: 1 From: Fort Collins, CO, USA Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-13-2000 11:56 PM Hi, I just wanted you to know I really like what you wrote...
lizp New Member Posts: 1 From: Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-14-2000 02:19 AM quote: Originally posted by Janet Shoemaker: You could do another whole program on grief alone. It is not dying that people can't deal with, it's grief. Having lived through my father's death from cancer at 64 I found much to identify with in the program. But living through my daughter's accidental death from a fall at 19 is a whole different thing. As dreadful as it was, my father was kept comfortable and there was time for him to say his goodbyes, all of us to come to terms with his death and do some of our grieving beforehand. When my daughter died, I found myself as grief director, comforting other people. In addition, the second year is worse than the first. People think you are okay. On the other hand, I still want to talk about my child as part of my life as any parent would. There should be a book of guidelines that funeral directors can hand out to friends. Grief in these circumstances is damn near disabling. I just wanted to say that I think that you're right, they could do another whole show on grief. When I was 13 my dad committed suicide. The last goodbyes and I love yous that we miss out on when we're confronted with the sudden death of a loved one sometimes become the most painful part of losing that person. My worst fear, of course, was that my dad had no idea how much I loved him and needed him in my life. As for friends expecting us to "get over it", well that's just never going to happen. I think that I've gotten on with my life (with the help of lots of love from family and friends), but no one gets over losing a part of themself. It's been 9 years since my dad died and I don't want to say that it gets so much easier because I still grieve, but that you just become alot more comfortable expressing your grief to people that you know and trust. Though some people may interpret it as so, it's not morbid to talk about someone that you've lost - people should feel priveledged that you would want to share such an important part of your life with them.
Barbara Dean Member Posts: 3 From: Great Barrington, MA 01230 Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-14-2000 04:35 PM quote: Originally posted by DrHolly: I am impressed by the depth of the responses posted in this discussion. As a social work professor with 20 years of experience in clinical social work, I conducted a bereavement group this summer for families who had lost a loved one. It was a very powerful and moving experience. I also lost my mother a year and a half ago and have realized that I have just begun to grieve. The program last night brought to light the commonality of the grief experience. I would encourage anyone coping with issues of death, dying and bereavement to consider attending a bereavement group. Family members don't always come together around the death of a loved one--sometimes the death of a loved one accentuates the unique differences among family members. Sometimes, family members are too close to be able to talk openly to each other. It can be very valuable to connect with others who share a similar experience without being related to them. In the bereavement group I facilitated this summer, group members formed a very powerful bond with each other in a very short amount of time. Grief is an ongoing growth experience that doesn't begin and end in a prescribed amount of time. We need to talk much more about this issue and educate ourselves about the process of dying and the normalcy of the grief experience. It is so wonderful to be able to join this discussion and to read about the experiences of others. My mother died in May, 1999 of congestive heart failure. For a year I remained in shock and depression. Like a bubble of air slowly rising to the surface of the ocean, the realization finally hit me that I was in deep trouble and needed help. I sought out a bereavement group for those who had lost parents. I wish I could say that this experience helped me, and in some ways I guess it did, but overall, the experience turned out to be very hurtful. The group leader was inexperienced, had not lost a parent and so had no experience of his own with which to relate to the group members, and was a poor facilitator. In addition he told me he had no spiritual or religious beliefs, which was certainly his right and which I respected (I used to be an atheist myself), but which seemed strange to me in someone who worked with the dying and the bereaved. He had seemed friendly and warm in the beginning, but as I tried to tell him why the group was not working for me, he got very defensive and ultimately hostile. The group members formed no lasting bond, and broke up and disappeared from each others lives after the 8 weeks was up. I felt that 8 weeks was too brief to move through all that we needed to - we were just beginning to get somewhere, but I was turned down by the group leader when I requested that we add on 2 more weeks. I am still hurting very much from this experience, months after it ended, and have been having great difficulty in trying to continue grieving my mother since now my grief for her is so intimately bound up with this painful and negative experience. I have been trying so hard to understand why something like this could have happened, and to move on from it. One thing it has made me believe strongly is that I think that anyone who wants to run bereavement groups and help others through this profound and all-consuming experience should have gone through it themselves before presuming that they could help others. They should be able to put themselves aside enough to truly hear what is expressed by grieving people - defensiveness and feeling threatened are not appropriate responses. One wonderful thing that has come out of this is that I want so much to work with the bereaved myself, as well as with the dying - I feel that I have come out of the darkness of ignorance regarding death, dying and grief, and into the light, and I am so thankful to Bill Moyers and his colleagues for creating this incredible program.
RTV Member Posts: 4 From: Camarillo, Ca. USA Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-14-2000 08:19 PM My mom died 2-29-00 after and extended illness. The loss was terrible for me and the grief is still unbearable. I found help with a bereavement group through my local hospice which has been of great help to me. A therapist friend of mine said that grief is like having the hiccups, you don't know when they will strike or how long they will last. I don't think you ever get over the death of someone you just get use to it. I found this in the obit section of the paper and for some reason it made me feel better. God looked around his garden And he found an empty place, He then looked dow upon his earth, And saw your tired face. He put his arms around you. And lifted you to rest. God's garden must be beautiful, He always takes the best, He knew that you were suffering He knew that you were in pain He knew that you would never Get well on earth again. He saw that the road Was getting rough And the hills are hard to climb So he closed your weary eyelids And whispered "peace be thine" It broke our hearts to lose you But you didn't go alone For part of us went with you The day God called you home.
Bill Lathrop Member Posts: 4 From: Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-14-2000 10:41 PM Exactly. Acknowledgement of the pain is what works. Hearing about God's plans for you only raises the question, why would a loving God do this to me? Those friends are crucial. I started counseling at the oustset and continue today.
Bill Lathrop Member Posts: 4 From: Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-14-2000 10:52 PM Physician, heal thyself. My wife (see the caregiver section for more on this) was a nurse who died in the hospice two years ago. One of her buddies came last summer, since she could not attend the funeral. I took her to the church and then to the hospice. The staff were still there, still wonderful. She looked into the room where my wife died and started to cry. The nurse said helpfully, "There are many fine grievance program available and you might benefit from joining one." The woman replied, sobbing, "That's what I do for a living." How do medical professionals like her handle death? Her husband died three years ago and it still haunts her. Doctors and nurses have reputations for being difficult patients. how do they face death? Not everyone is comforted by the thought of heavenly bliss. We should be glad that some are. Not everybody feels comfortable talking about death. Try teenagers who have lost a parent.
DrHolly Member Posts: 3 From: Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-14-2000 11:26 PM quote: Originally posted by Barbara Dean: [QUOTE]Originally posted by DrHolly: [b]I am impressed by the depth of the responses posted in this discussion. As a social work professor with 20 years of experience in clinical social work, I conducted a bereavement group this summer for families who had lost a loved one. It was a very powerful and moving experience. I also lost my mother a year and a half ago and have realized that I have just begun to grieve. The program last night brought to light the commonality of the grief experience. I would encourage anyone coping with issues of death, dying and bereavement to consider attending a bereavement group. Family members don't always come together around the death of a loved one--sometimes the death of a loved one accentuates the unique differences among family members. Sometimes, family members are too close to be able to talk openly to each other. It can be very valuable to connect with others who share a similar experience without being related to them. In the bereavement group I facilitated this summer, group members formed a very powerful bond with each other in a very short amount of time. Grief is an ongoing growth experience that doesn't begin and end in a prescribed amount of time. We need to talk much more about this issue and educate ourselves about the process of dying and the normalcy of the grief experience. It is so wonderful to be able to join this discussion and to read about the experiences of others. My mother died in May, 1999 of congestive heart failure. For a year I remained in shock and depression. Like a bubble of air slowly rising to the surface of the ocean, the realization finally hit me that I was in deep trouble and needed help. I sought out a bereavement group for those who had lost parents. I wish I could say that this experience helped me, and in some ways I guess it did, but overall, the experience turned out to be very hurtful. The group leader was inexperienced, had not lost a parent and so had no experience of his own with which to relate to the group members, and was a poor facilitator. In addition he told me he had no spiritual or religious beliefs, which was certainly his right and which I respected (I used to be an atheist myself), but which seemed strange to me in someone who worked with the dying and the bereaved. He had seemed friendly and warm in the beginning, but as I tried to tell him why the group was not working for me, he got very defensive and ultimately hostile. The group members formed no lasting bond, and broke up and disappeared from each others lives after the 8 weeks was up. I felt that 8 weeks was too brief to move through all that we needed to - we were just beginning to get somewhere, but I was turned down by the group leader when I requested that we add on 2 more weeks. I am still hurting very much from this experience, months after it ended, and have been having great difficulty in trying to continue grieving my mother since now my grief for her is so intimately bound up with this painful and negative experience. I have been trying so hard to understand why something like this could have happened, and to move on from it. One thing it has made me believe strongly is that I think that anyone who wants to run bereavement groups and help others through this profound and all-consuming experience should have gone through it themselves before presuming that they could help others. They should be able to put themselves aside enough to truly hear what is expressed by grieving people - defensiveness and feeling threatened are not appropriate responses. One wonderful thing that has come out of this is that I want so much to work with the bereaved myself, as well as with the dying - I feel that I have come out of the darkness of ignorance regarding death, dying and grief, and into the light, and I am so thankful to Bill Moyers and his colleagues for creating this incredible program.[/B][/QUOTE] Barbara, I am so sorry to hear of your experience with the bereavement group. And I couldn't agree with you more. Grief and bereavement are complicated issues that affect people very deeply. Inexperienced facilitators should not be conducting groups concerning these powerful, emotions. In fact, I believe bereavement groups should have two experienced facilitators to prevent negative experiences from happening for the participants. Unfortunately, there are groups that are conducted by people that are not trained to facilitate them. After my mother died, I walked around for months thinking I was the only one in the world who experienced so much pain after the death of a loved one. I found myself crying in the shower every day not wanting others to know how upset I still was. I began to realize how helpful it was to talk to others who had gone through a similar experience and that my feelings were not unique. I don't think a group situation works for everyone, but I do think talking about your feelings is very beneficial to your overall well being. I hope you have others to talk to. Many people find they cannot talk to other family members about their grief and they don't want to burden their friends. I think professional grief counselors can be helpful but they must be competent in dealing with these issues. I hope your next experience is a much better one for you.
Shea Member Posts: 3 From: San Antonio, TX, USA Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-15-2000 01:00 AM Although my husband is still living (see caregiver bb for the brief medical history), I went through a very deep grieving period for our old life. Once he was diagnosed, our entire life revolved (and still does) his cancer. He couldn't drive anymore, so we sold his car, and I am now the chaffeur. We couldn't afford the mortgage on my salary alone, so we sold the house and now we live in an apartment. I don't make plans more than two weeks in advance, because I don't want to commit myself to something and ending up having to bow out because he is having a crisis. All of those things, that NOW are normal, at the time resulted in such a disruption of our life that I mourned our old life. Compared to some of these truly painful stories of grief, I know mine sounds superficial. But, I think that we need to acknowledge that some of our grief is selfish. My life changed because of his cancer. I didn't ask it to change. I didn't want it to change, but it did. I suppose we all deal with grief in different ways.
Pumpkin Member Posts: 2 From: Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-15-2000 04:59 PM The love of my life died of lung cancer Dec. 1999, at the age of 51 (I'm not even 45) and there is nothing on earth that can prepare you for the grief, it is truly overwhelming. I had so many wonderful people there and helping immediately after, but the time it's needed most is in the months that follow. Everyones life went back to normal, and I had no life to go "back" to...it was starting all over, and there was this intense emotional roller coaster ride at the same time. THe hospice group that helped us had a bereavement group that met regularly and that has been a tremendous help. The first time I went I walked into the room, sat down and started crying immediately..and nothing had happened yet. But in the group we all just say what we feel, cry together, listen and realize that we are not crazy, find out that what we feel and think, is what everyone is expierencing, and "normal" for grieving. They helped me understand the emotional feelings, the physical problems, and recognize when you just are not funtioning well..and to take your time, we all expierence grief differently, there is no right or wrong way. There is great comfort in being with people who are going through the same thing. I have been blessed with a dear friend who has stuck with me through all of this, and listens and listens, and doesn't expect me to "get over" it for find "closure" in a matter of months. Another suggestion that I find very helpful was to keep a journal (I've never done this in my life, but I'm on the fourth one); it seems when you put your fears and concerns to paper it helps to release them and they don't weigh as heavily as before, and often I write directly to him, telling him about my day or memories of our life together that are there constantly day in and day out. I find you have to reach out to people. They think you need "space" or time and don't call. Now I call them, because that's just the way this society is. I stopped trying to think of the future, that was too depressing and difficult because I thought I'd spend it with him, and now there is this vast nothingness out there, so I go at it one day at a time, with much smaller goals in life. When people ask how I am, I tell them I'm surviving, that about sums it up. I never fought the grief; I let it have it's place in my life...I'm going to go through it and come out the other side whole and a better person, I hope. It has made me much more sensitive to others and their needs. We often miss the best parts of life, trying to live it better. I was with him when he took his last breath at home, and I felt so honored that I could be the one to be there to guide him on to the what is next for all of us. I have no doubt after being with him at that moment that there is more after life here; I know his soul moved on and his body was left, and I have absolutly no doubt we will be together again. I was raised a Catholic but haven't practiced any relgion in many, many years, yet I believe this totally. We were able to have a number of conversations about his dying, our life and how we had no regrets, which we did not. I just wish our society made death more a part of life. I'm often angry that people just don't want to deal with it, or people who are expierencing it..like it'll go away if you ignore it. Sorry, it's only worse that way. I used to be terrified of dying, but now I look at life and death in a very different way. It was at times so painful to watch this series,(most nights I missed the discussion after because I was sitting there sobbing) but it was so very well done and neccessary. I just hope enough people were willing to expierence it.
Neva Elks Member Posts: 2 From: Grimesland, NC, USA Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-15-2000 11:39 PM Thank you so much for your reply. I am now seeing a therapist that told me all of the feelings I repressed have come back to haunt me in the forms of physical illnesses, as I have quite a few, plus the depression. My husband is concerned because I sleep so much and I am afraid my daughter will turn out to be like me, and I definitely DO NOT want that. However, I can't seem to make myself "just get up and get moving," which is what people who try to help me are saying. Am I wallowing in my depression? What is the answer? Anyone? quote: Originally posted by little ish: NevaElks - The things you describe that you have been going through (Not wanting to be around others, sleeping alot, not leaving the house) are all things I experienced after the death of my brother. I am not even sure how many months passed before I finally left the house, but I do know that even then I hated having people anywhere near me. I have experienced death of family members through out my life, but only the death of one in my arms after a prolonged battle with cancer. My brother died almost 4 years ago at the time of his death he was my older brother (2years). I guess technically I am now the older sibling - that is such an odd thought, but one that has occurred to me since the day 2 years ago when I was suddenly the elder child. My brother and I were not so close growing up, but learned to love, respect, and depend on each other as we became adults. I was his only caregiver through the last months of his life and he died suddenly in my arms early one Sunday morning. The memories of his emaciated, fragile, and pain racked body are at time more than I think I can handle. His last breaths were pleas to help him - Help him to Live? or to die? I will never know. I will also never forget that gasping raspy voice and the anguish he was experiencing. I know that I have not come to terms with his death or the manner in which it occurred and I don't honestly ever expect to. I get up every morning, dress & go to work, eat when I have to, sleep when I can, and greive in solitude. That may not be the formula for coping with the death of a loved one that most would prescribe, but it has allowed me to get through 4 years without hearing the word "sis" even once. Not much of a word only 3 letters, but I miss it so very much!!
picskelton Member Posts: 2 From: Los Angeles, CA. US Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-16-2000 02:44 PM God whose law it is that those who learn must suffer. And even in our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, against our will, comes wisdom to us, by the awful grace of God. -Aeschylus
daveleb Member Posts: 2 From: san francisco, ca usa Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-17-2000 12:50 PM Pumpkin; Your thoughts echoed my sentiments exactly. My partner passed away very suddenly (which I was not sure is easier or more difficult than a prolonged illness, but I would have liked to have the time to say goodbye and other thoughts...). What I miss most is the intimacy, of having someone there for me all the time, when I go to bed, when something exciting happens with my work, when I have a question, when the toilet needs fixing, etc...So for me it's been about 6 months and I have good friends and a therapist who helps me somewhat, but so much of this you just have to experience alone. And I am learning to live alone, but don't like it. I miss the companionship. Friends have asked if I was going to start dating again, and I feel like I could never do that and be the same. I was recently watching a show in television and Dean Martin's wife was talking about the death of her son. She said something that was very apt, "I will never know true joy in my life again". I feel that I will never be truly, deep-down happy as I have this very deep sadness from the loss. Also, like Pumpkin, I no longer fear death. I am not afraid, and as hopeless as this may sound at first, I don't really have anything to live for. Not that I don't enjoy living, but there isn't any reason for me to worry about dying any longer. So I go on. I was hoping to find a good friend who would take over my partners place in my life, and be my best-buddy, but so far that hasn't happened. But I am so fortunate that I have great, great friends who have taken care of me and who call me, take me out, pal around and are just wonderful.
laurie flynt New Member Posts: 1 From: Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-17-2000 08:54 PM Almost a year ago I lost my grandfather to cancer. About a month before my grandfather died I had a dream with him in it. We were on our way back from the hospital and he died in my arms. I dreamt that I told him how much I loved him and that someday when I had children I would tell them about him. I told him of many childhood memories before he died. I took that dream and wrote a letter to him. My mother felt that grandad had not come to terms with the fact that he was dying until he went into hospice care so the letter was kept at his home until the appropriate time. The night it became clear that grandad would be gone soon my mother called from East Texas and we all headed up. I cried the entire trip and often felt as if I would throw up. By the time we got there he could no longer speak. My mother said, "Laurie, wrote you a letter.Do you want to hear it?" He said yes and that was the last he spoke or moved. I sat a death watch along with my mother for 2 days and they were the 2 most spiritual days of my life. To some it may seem morbid, but I wrote down things that happened like his changing of breath, memories, my agony. Wanting for him to be here, but frustrated that he wouldn't leave at the same time. Holding my breath when he did not for a couple of seconds. My eyes were swollen from crying and my head hurt. It was the most difficult experience and yet the most beautiful. My grandfather died the same way he lived his life. With courage and strength, with honor and with love. When he took his last breath I knew that my childhood had gone with him, that the person whom i had loved the most and who had loved me unconditionally had vanished physically from my life. I had him for only 22 years and it is quite painful to think about living out my life without him. Its difficult to think of someone being so vivid as extingushed. The man who would ask for a cup of coffee and say, "I'll dance at your wedding" won't be there. The man who so wanted to be at my college graduation 2 months later wasn't there. If you asked me to change one thing I would say, "nothing". I told him all I wanted to know before he died. We were all very fortunate because we got to say goodbye. We all had time to honor him, to hold his hand, and to kiss him goodbye. I grieve for him often and that is when I write. You think, if I could have one more hug, one more kiss...but you know what it doesn't matter. When its someone you love it could never ever be enough. Sometimes I crawl into bed and cuddle with an old pair of blue jeans that were his or kiss his picture at night and somehow it feels like he is close. Just recently I had another dream of him. I was a little girl again and he was in his jeans and a tan shirt. All around him was this light and he was holding my hand. He had that huge smile on his face that said, "I adore you". There was music playing and at a certain point with the music we would stomp to it. I tugged on his shirt to get him to stop so we could do it again. So we did and we walked hand in hand through the honeysuckled covered gate at my childhood home. I knew then that he would forever be with me and for a few seconds it was like having him on earth again. When you grieve do what feels right to you. Don't worry what others think. If you feel like shouting to the heavens then shout. If you feel like visiting the grave or not visiting then do just that. Talk or write. Take flowers or tape up pictures. Honor them in a way that is comfortable to you.There isn't a wrong or a right way. Just let yourself grieve and temper it with the belief that you have a life to live. A life with which to do honor toward those you have lost and loved. A life that allows you to be loved and respected when your time inevitably will come. Embrace it or fight it, but live with a passion. [This message has been edited by laurie flynt (edited 09-17-2000).]
JimK4 Member Posts: 2 From: Altamonte Springs, FL Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-20-2000 09:25 AM Grief stinks! But we must all go through it, not around it. There is a wonderful site for the bereaved to share on message boards and even in chat. Make a visit to www.GROWW.org, Grief Recovery Online, a FREE service for anyone who has lost, or is losing a loved one to death. You are not alone. Best wishes, Jim
Barbara Dean Member Posts: 3 From: Great Barrington, MA 01230 Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-20-2000 04:32 PM quote: Originally posted by DrHolly: Barbara, I am so sorry to hear of your experience with the bereavement group. And I couldn't agree with you more. Grief and bereavement are complicated issues that affect people very deeply. Inexperienced facilitators should not be conducting groups concerning these powerful, emotions. In fact, I believe bereavement groups should have two experienced facilitators to prevent negative experiences from happening for the participants. Unfortunately, there are groups that are conducted by people that are not trained to facilitate them. After my mother died, I walked around for months thinking I was the only one in the world who experienced so much pain after the death of a loved one. I found myself crying in the shower every day not wanting others to know how upset I still was. I began to realize how helpful it was to talk to others who had gone through a similar experience and that my feelings were not unique. I don't think a group situation works for everyone, but I do think talking about your feelings is very beneficial to your overall well being. I hope you have others to talk to. Many people find they cannot talk to other family members about their grief and they don't want to burden their friends. I think professional grief counselors can be helpful but they must be competent in dealing with these issues. I hope your next experience is a much better one for you. Dear Dr.Holly, Thank you so much for replying to my posting. It really does help when someone understands and empathizes with what you have gone through. That is what we can do for each other - fully listen, and witness with compassion, no matter how painful, the experiences of others. It is obvious to me from reading each of the posted letters on this board how much growth and deepening we all have had to go through, through the illness and death of those we love. I have been so moved by reading each of the stories told here, and I wish everyone here healing and strength. Keep telling your story!
raphael6068 Member Posts: 18 From: Patagonia,Az. USA Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-20-2000 09:33 PM quote: Originally posted by Stamm44: Share your thoughts about coping with grief, exchange tips for explaining death to a child, or provide insight into the pros and cons of grief therapy. Reference your question on Coping With Grief: The departure in death of a loved one is one of the most heart rending experiences that can be experienced. especially if the death was sudden. When I think of how I might react to the death of my beloved wife of 50 years, I become highly motivated to show her my love and assist her in every way possible NOW while I can; to not dare go to bed at night with anger between us, or hurt feelings between us. I believe the worst grief, the type that won't go away, is born because of memories of the hurtful times and the times when a grudge was carried like pouting,spoiled children, etc. Every loss will cause grief which is a perfectly natural reaction, but that searing kind of grief surely must come from the realization that we did not love unconditionally, or failed to ever tell the departed how much they meant to us. Treating each one we know, even non-relatives, as if they were a unique gift to us in our lifetime, can help us over the loss when their time comes to leave us, knowing we tried our best in our relationship; sort of applying the Golden Rule all the time to everyone. I don't mean to suggest we become wimps or milktoasts, but rather that we see the value of every one and show them that we value them as special persons in our lives. Then I think the grief might be less intense and traumatic to us. Of course , those who believe they will see the departed again in the next life can handle the loss even "easier". Compared to eternity, this time together is only a blink of the eye. It's in the next life where the joy of being together forever with no separation will be so great an experience of true happiness, and all that, while in the presence of God.I believe the unbearable grief that strikes some after a death might just be an inconsolable guilt they feel because "love" was not a big enough part of their relationships with the deceased. The other comments made by other postings have done a wonderful job explaining the true grief suffered for the loss of the friendship, loss of the wonderful presence and joy the departed had brought into their life, but I think the guilt I describe above is the cause of the grief that knows no end. On explaining death to a child: What a challenge! For those who do not believe in an after life, I dread the thought of how they can approach such a subject. Can they say much more than"Your Auntie Sue is gone. Into the ground. You can never see her again and she will have no memories of you or me. Too bad!.This is all there is to this life on earth and death is truly the end of everything!" For those who BELIEVE in an afterlife, especially a Christian, the task can be an opportunity of showing purpose to our life on earth.A child can be told that lif is the time given to us to work for the good of self and others, to contribute to society with our time and talents to the extent possible within our resources, to leave the world a better place because we passed this way.And, that when the end comes, if the life was in conformance with the Ten Commandments of God, an even better, more complete form of life is awaiting the soul. The Christian believes the soul is immortal and will "live" with God and "know" Him as He really is; and that all the family has the opportunity to be once again together for all eternity; that the loss of the deceased is only temporary. This might be one way to explain what death is to a child. and it also helps to explain the "why" of life on earth. I do not believe in reincarnation and would not say to a child that the deceased will come back to life again on this earth in an unrecognizable state or form.
Dianne Barrio New Member Posts: 1 From: Troutdale Oregon USA Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-28-2000 08:11 PM quote: Originally posted by Neva Elks: To paraphrase on some of your points of: ...my father's death 4 yrs ago from cancer...The next to the last time I saw him, he was weak, in pain, and had lost a lot of weight...There he lay, shrunken, skin and bones, and with a faraway look in his eyes...I didn't really grieve for a while. Like I said, its been 4 years and now I have sunk into a depression so deep that I am unable to function. I am on a leave of absence from work and don't leave my house unless my husband (bless his big heart!)...even quit going to church. I sleep all day and stay up all night. Thankfully, I am now seeing a therapist, but I have a long way to go. Has anyone else had a reaction close to this?... To Neva Elks, I too entered into a "funk" of depression. In 1997, I had a series of 20 deaths occur. Along with that some other personal crises happened. It is only now 3 years later that I feel like I have a bit of myself back. In fact when I read your message, it took me a bit to respond but you hit the nail on the head. I have found little help from the community and friends - the typical response is "get on with life". Or take Prozac. (Wonderful!) I get my email at the public library as my computer is buried in storage due to '97, so I might not respond real fast but if you would like to communicate with someone who can relate I will be glad to. THANKS to all who aired their feelings. While the electronic mode is not quite as personal, it still is a step in the right direction about talking about our feelings and how death has affected us.
Christopher May Member Posts: 4 From: Registered: Oct 2000	posted 10-15-2000 12:30 AM For those grieving for and wondering about the circumstances of those recently dead, Carolyn Stearns' collection of messages from people who recently died and then chose her as their channel for something more that they wanted to say to the living may be com-forting and reassuring. They have been to the relatives of the dead to whom Carolyn was able to convey the messages, and they attensted to the authenticity of voice and the credibility of the message-senders. Carolyn has collected the messages in a book she calls "Spirit-Walking". Please reach us at Christomay@aol.com if these after-death messages might be of interest and value to you.
elfling Member Posts: 2 From: Alpine, CA, USA Registered: Sep 2000	posted 10-25-2000 05:50 AM quote: Originally posted by pugnose56: Just so you know, elfing, I did send you a very long and well thought out reply. The problem is that I don't see it recorded here on this chat line. DAMMIT! I'm too tired to repeat it unless you really want to know. Just so you know, elfing, I did send you a very long and well thought out reply. The problem is that I don't see it recorded here on this chat line. DAMMIT! I'm too tired to repeat it unless you really want to know. Dear Pugnose, Thank you for telling me this. I waited and watched, in case you answered. Then my life became filled with my own health situation and I only today, Oct. 25, found your message. What a bummer, a long and well thought out reply lost in the ethers! I would like to know, but I am guessing that you didn't have a back up to copy and paste in. I understand being too tired to write it again. Elfling
Kelly Brooks Member Posts: 3 From: Mashpee, MA, USA Registered: Oct 2000	posted 11-20-2000 03:06 PM I am very interested in the topic of retreats for the grieving after a loved one has passed on. I lost my mother and sister within two years of each other and was a caregiver to both of them. My mother became ill and died first of heart complications while my sister was diagnosed with colon cancer a year later. After the death of my sister, I found myself searching for a place to retreat to. Returning to the real world after both of these losses was quite a shock. Although I was able to create my own retreats and visited inns and places that I found restorative, I never found a place that was focused soley on restoring the caregiver. Does such a place exist? Do others caregivers search for a place of resbit after their loss? If so where do you go?
Stamm44 Moderator Posts: 63 From: Louisville, KY, USA Registered: Mar 2000	posted 11-20-2000 05:37 PM Kelly, I have found functions to attend for the grieving, but no special retreats as in the kind for religious contemplation. Our local Hospice runs sessions meeting weekly for those dealing with grief, for example. It seems to me that you have found a solution that will work for many people - create your own retreat, where your feelings take you to a special inn or forest outing. I recently lost my spouse who died after fighting cancer for many years. Her favorite place was the seashore, where she found peace walking along or sitting watching the waves on the Gulf Coast. My son called me the other day and said that he was taking me to Paris, where he and i had lived years ago for a couple years before I met and married my late spouse. I often found peace wandering the streets of that city, so maybe he has figured this out for us. quote: Originally posted by Kelly Brooks: I am very interested in the topic of retreats for the grieving after a loved one has passed on. I lost my mother and sister within two years of each other and was a caregiver to both of them. My mother became ill and died first of heart complications while my sister was diagnosed with colon cancer a year later. After the death of my sister, I found myself searching for a place to retreat to. Returning to the real world after both of these losses was quite a shock. Although I was able to create my own retreats and visited inns and places that I found restorative, I never found a place that was focused soley on restoring the caregiver. Does such a place exist? Do others caregivers search for a place of resbit after their loss? If so where do you go?

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